Very un-PC, offensive, and probably rude topic...

[IronFist]

Would you grapple with a gay guy? A couple scenarios:

1. There's an openly gay guy in your class and he is your partner for the day (or an exercise or whatever).

2. There's an openly gay guy in your class who has a crush on you and he's your partner for the day (or exercise or whatever).

I'm just wondering cuz my friend had scenario 2 occur the other day.

Is it wrong to say "no, I don't want to grapple with you?" Cuz I mean, he has as much right to be there and learn as you do, right? That's what my friend did... he's all "No, I'm going to work with this other guy instead," and walked away.

So I'm going to leave it open. What would you do?

And if this topic is offensive to you, don't read it

IronFist

[Merryprankster]

1. Yes. Who cares?

2. I don't want to be that close to anybody who has a crush on me that I'm not interested in. Simply put, I'd say "Here's the deal--I know the scoop, and you do ANYTHING I don't like, we're switching partners. You act like you don't understand what I'm talking about right now, we're switching partners. I'm here to learn, not flirt."

[MonkeySlap Too]

I think the same rules that apply to women apply here - if you do not feel comfortable working out with someone, ask to train with someone else. It is not h)m)phopia to be uncomfortable - especially if the other person expressed interest in you, that you do not reciprocate.

This should be no big deal.

[Sleemie]

Hey MerryPrankster....I see you're from DC, not many people on here from this area. Where do you study? Which School? What style/system?

[GLW]

Sexual orientation does NOT matter.

It is 100% inappropriate for anyone to feel like they may be groped during a normal part of class.

If you were female and had to go with a male classmate who was known to be an octopus, you have a right to NOT do this and a responsibility to make sure the instructor knows WHY.

If you are female and the groper is female - same thing. If you are male and the groper is female - same thing. If you are male and the groper is male - same thing.

If the person working with you is NOT groping but you are just reading in your feelings, get a grip...on yourself.

As for practicing in a class with anyone, if you have a problem with someone, it is YOUR problem as long as they are not behaving inappropriately...and just being openly gay is NOT behaving inappropriately.

Who a person goes out with after class doesn't concern me. Bringing such things into MY class wastes my time and will cause me to isolate a student or ask them to leave.

[IronFist]

So, as a guy, you wouldn't mind being poked during a grappling match?

It CAN happen, so don't say it doesn't.

IronFist

[Badger]

1. Hell No.
2. HELL NO!!!

[Suntzu]

I don’t think gay men are soooo sexually outta control that they couldn't refrain from grouping… I mean do u (or whoever we are talkin bout) feel up on every female partner… yeah, it could happen… someone could get 'poked' or whatever… and if said gay dude gets out of line choke him out!!! but all that other stuff is just fear... "oh nooo, he might feel me up"

[FatherDog]

I've never grappled with a guy that I was aware was gay, so I can't say for sure...

...but I've grappled with women that fall waaaaaaay below my 'minimum standards of attractiveness' (call me shallow) which, in my view, is essentially the same thing; close physical contact with someone who /might/ be attracted to you who you are /definitely/ not attracted to.

It never bothered me, and I doubt grappling with a gay guy would, either.

Now, if it was a gay guy who had a crush on me, I'd probably approach it like MP would. That would probably make me a little uncomfortable, but then, so does being in close contact with a girl who has a crush on me that I'm not interested in.

Bottom line, as long as everyone keeps in mind that they're there to train, not flirt, everything is cool.

[Former castleva]

I´m pretty much along the same lines.
No matter who,what orientation or whatever,that goes beyond what is expected in class.
Your example is one example.

[Odie-wan]

I had the opportunity of working with a couple gay and bi guys in the Navy on my first submarine. Although we didn't grapple (not much room on a sub anyway), I wouldn't hesitate because I knew them and we had a mutual respect. So for scenario #1, yes I would.

They had a flamer for a friend that had a crush on me. I would not even consider grappling with that individual. But, if one of my crew members (whom I trusted) had similar feelings, I would not hesitate to roll in the kwoon with him as long as he understood my feelings on the matter.

Sean

[Ryu]

There was an attractive female in my BJJ school for as long as I was there, and I rolled with her on several occasions. She was very skilled.

I've also taught and grappled with a number of attractive women. Your mind is on training and nothing else. I think it's silly to assume that men (both straight and gay) are so undisciplined and not in control of their own bodies, that "poking" people can become an epidemic I've never once thought of anything but training when training was concerned.

The only exception I'd be able to think of is if someone really had strong romantic feelings for someone else ...... but even then training is training. If you think it will be a problem though, who's forcing you?

Ryu

[eulerfan]

This is a great thread because I have a crush on a guy in my kwoon. Every time I consider flirting I give myself a good smack in the face. Singles clubs are the most uncomfortable, tense places on earth and I don't want to turn my kwoon into one.

So, if this person let you know about the crush, I would purport that his boundaries are obviously not in check and you have no reason to trust him to behave on the floor.

But, if it's just that he's gay, yeah, I'd have to go with the 'get over yourself' response.

[AndrewS]

1). Yes

2). Yes, but I would go out of my way to clear up the communication and take ten minutes to grab a cup of coffee or a beer and explain that I'm not interested and that over and above that a martial arts class is *not* a pickup joint.

In #2, I think there's a point worth remembering, as I've dealt with way too many women who've decided to come to a class to act cute and flirt rather than train (and *surprise* few people mind). If I'm training, I'm there to train. When I've dated female training partners, the physical interaction in training has been purely non-sexual, I turn the little switch in my head that deals with that to *off*, and work on the skills. Later, it goes back to *on*. This is not difficult to do- even the most aggressively macho guys (and dykes) I knew in med school were **** near completely oblivious to their gyn patients after a while.

A tangent to this topic which someone will probably raise is that of blood-born disease. Speaking as an MD who has taken care of HIV patients, I have *no* problem training with someone with HIV as long as proper precautions are taken- any open wounds either of you have are covered (and at one point volunteer to help one of my si-je teach self-defence to an HIV positive support group). The risk of HIV transmission is low through this type of contact (1 in 200 to 1 in 600 for hollow bore needle stick). A problem much less often associated with the ****sexual community is that of Hepatitis B, which can be very nasty, and has transmission rates under similar circumstances of between 1 in 4 and 1 in 2. A three part vaccine series (now standard for kids shots) is 90-95% effective at blocking this.

In a perfect world, and certainly in any school I eventually wind up running, I would like to see two things-

1). An environment where either gender and any sexual orientation can train comfortably as long as they're willing to work hard, sweat, and sometimes bleed

2). An awareness that the last quality needed to learn, bleeding, has consequences, and as such requires certain measures be taken both for your own good and that of your training partners including- covering all open wounds, HIV, Hep B, and Hep C serologies, and a Hepatitis B vaccine series.

Lecture mode *off*

Andrew

[AndrewS]

I know the word 'h^o^m^o' is viewed as an epithet but the software on this board which decides to censor it whenever it appears as a portion of a word gives things a decidedly Orwellian tone.

Later,

Andrew