Yip Man Issued Teaching Certificates....

[David Jamieson]

If you find who holds ip man' chops, you'll find one who can issue the certificate.

The wing chun style lives in it's practitioners. While a lineage bearer who holds a certificate certainly can justify their claim to fame, Kung fu is in the hands and heart. it does not belong to anyone but those who learn and practice it. Some are very good at it, some, not so good. Most teachers are without question competent.

The wing chun system has been codified for some time, ip man cleary enjoyed sharing the system. In fact he gave it openly to the whole world. The same way any master of kungfu would give his art to the world.

There are moments in our lives though... i suppose.

peace

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
If you find who holds ip man' chops, you'll find one who can issue the certificate.

Well, if you believe that, how much would you pay for an authentic autographed copy of the Ten Commandments signed by Moses? I just happen to have a few copies left.

The wing chun style lives in it's practitioners. While a lineage bearer who holds a certificate certainly can justify their claim to fame, Kung fu is in the hands and heart. it does not belong to anyone but those who learn and practice it. Some are very good at it, some, not so good. Most teachers are without question competent.

The last sentence above is patently and ridiculously false. Most teachers, if you mean Wing Chun teachers, are incompetent to convey the whole art. Most don't have the training and the time in, nor the experience. There has been no quality control for most of them--a few years in the art at best, and it's hang out the shingle. There are notable exceptions, but they are few.

The wing chun system has been codified for some time,

Also, not true. Certain lineages may be able to claim this truthfully, but often only so long as the Sigung or his apt pupil lives.

ip man cleary enjoyed sharing the system.

Sorry to be so contradictary, but check the archives. Ip Man was very selective and grudging about sharing the system. Probably only the first three and Wong Shun Leung got most of it, but even they often don't/didn't claim their study was complete.

In fact he gave it openly to the whole world. The same way any master of kungfu would give his art to the world.

Too ambiguous for me to disagree with.

peace

Peace be with you. Tov Shabbas.

Regards,

[David Jamieson]

I have to disagree that most teachers are not competent. If that was the case, the style would be dead. It isn't.

I also have to disagree that ip man wasn't generous. He was photographed, he was written about, he gave advice, he spread teh word and had many students. Hardly the mark of someone who would "grudgingly" impart the style.

There are numerous codified (written) texts on teh wing chun style. All over the place. There's a museum on the style for goodness sake! How many other styles have a museum?!

The chops remark was sarcastic. of course anyone can make a chops, they're for sale everywhere, find the marks you want and get them inscribed and voila...chops to stamp your parchment.

Wing Chun is no big secret, it's hard work like the rest of Kungfu.

peace

[quiet man]

I know nothing about Yip Man's certificates, but here's few thoughts on certs in general: my sifu spent 9 years with the late master WSL. I don't know whether he received a certificate or not, but I know he recieved the knowledge, and that's all that matters to me (personally). OTOH, my sifu doesn't issue certificates (unless specifically requested).
To cut a long story short: if you can do WC, you don't need certs; and if you can't, no piece of paper will help you. So, if you have some kind of diploma signed by Yip Man or any other master, I'm happy to hear that (no sarcasm intended), but if you don't, I won't think any less of you .

[tparkerkfo]

Hi,

To say that Yip Man was a reluctant teacher is probably over stating some what. Yip Man did teach many people over the years. Some became long time friends. Some say that he only taught because he needed money, but he seems to have taught in Futsan before he fell on harder times. So it is really hard to say. What we do know is Yip Man did not teach most people directly. By most I mean towards the end he had a rather large group and the teaching was primarily done by others. We also know that many people did not learn everything directly. I beleive each of the first couple students were all missing atleast one of the forms from direct Yip Man teaching.

I wouldn't say he was reluctant as much as probably selective. He taught and he taught well those that he wanted to teach. Lok Yiu, TST, Leung Sheung, Wong Sheung Leung, Ho Kam Ming, and a few others all have excellent skills.

As far as codifying and enjoying sharing, I think these are kind of silly. Although he probably enjoyed sharing, he only directly shared with a small group. Probably the people he liked and got along with. But he did not teach every one. Codifying, Look at TST, Lok Yiu, and Leung Sheung, and WSL. each were early students and most had a long time relationship with Yip Man. But there are LOTS of differences between.

But in any case, I would still love to see one of these certs.

Tom
________
Ffm Latina

[reneritchie]

Tom,

Yip Man taught in Foshan after he fell on hard times there, after the Japanese occupied and his ancestral wealth was stripped from him (the same time period Sum Nung's family lost their wealth and he was forced to take a job as a waiter at Tien Hoi restaurant).

BTW- I'd also venture that if some learned "it all" but didn't really care to realize or pass it on, and some others learned "a lot" and really worked hard to cultivate it and propagate it, the latter might be of more interest to someone who wanted to learn.

RR

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
I have to disagree that most teachers are not competent. If that was the case, the style would be dead. It isn't.

True, Wing Chun is not dead, but what is being called Wing Chun by a lot of stiffs is. Some culling should be done to weed out all the mutts. It's a lot like the phases of Kenpo and TKD when there were schools on just about every corner. Seems to me that every TKD school has a display of trophys declaring their teacher/student is the "world champion." Notice how they never say which world?

I also have to disagree that ip man wasn't generous. He was photographed, he was written about, he gave advice, he spread teh word and had many students. Hardly the mark of someone who would "grudgingly" impart the style.

I stand by my choice of words. Ip Man touched hands with only a few students. Some students were so impressed when he deigned to touch their hands on rare occasions that they wouldn't wash their hands afterwards for a long time.

There are numerous codified (written) texts on teh wing chun style. All over the place. There's a museum on the style for goodness sake! How many other styles have a museum?!

You don't need a museum if the style is alive. Of course, the Yip Man Tong honors the founders of the system. But, in itself, it does nothing to preserve the style. As for codification, the entire sum of what's been written does not include a fraction of the style's entirety.

The chops remark was sarcastic. of course anyone can make a chops, they're for sale everywhere, find the marks you want and get them inscribed and voila...chops to stamp your parchment.

Correct.

Wing Chun is no big secret, it's hard work like the rest of Kungfu.

The first "hard work" is in finding some legitimate teacher and to not be taken in by some of the proliferating wannabee kung fu teachers.

peace

And also to you.

[Grendel]

Originally posted by tparkerkfo
As for me, I got 2 or 3 certs from Eddie Chong. What does that mean? Nothing, but I got 'em. I still suck LOL.

If I were you, I'd go ask for my money back.

Regards,

[tparkerkfo]

Hi Grendal,

I didn't say the info sucked, just that I do. LOL. I realize the rift between my current teacher and my previous sigung and I expect comments such as these. Ken is quite remarkable and I really value the time I spend with him, though it is limited. Dispite what many in his organization feel, Eddie is fairly accomplished and better than many others I know. He's no Ken, but then how many are? LOL. The mony was well spent. I just understand where I stand in reagards to wing chun skill. LOL.

Tom

PS Thanks Rene for the clarification. I always forget the details. LOL.
________
MARY JANE

[Grendel]

Originally posted by tparkerkfo
I didn't say the info sucked, just that I do. LOL. I realize the rift between my current teacher and my previous sigung and I expect comments such as these.

Comments such as what? If all you got from your teacher was 2 or 3 certificates from your Sigung and no Wing Chun skill, you deserve your money back. The certificates just make it worse because they imply a level of competency. After all, you're not saying you studied directly from Eddie are you?

Dispite what many in his organization feel, Eddie is fairly accomplished and better than many others I know.

Have you ever heard any disparagement of Eddie's hands? I'd find this surprising. Back when he studied under Ken, Eddie was considered a fair hand.

The mony was well spent. I just understand where I stand in reagards to wing chun skill. LOL.

Which brings to mind a Cantonese saying: Mm Yan Chi Dai, which means "stealing from other people's children." This applies to unqualified persons who claim to teach Wing Chun but do not convey the art correctly or in its entirety.

Regards,