incorrect info at www.buksing.com about ngan yiu ting

[choyleefutman]

I have studied the history of CLF , along with who's who in the CLF arena. I came across with reading the history of Tam, Sarm's life history at buksing.com, and read that Vince Lacey mentioned that there was a feud between Tam, Sarm and Ngan, Yiu Ting, and Ngan's two family members, and Tam won all three of them etc....as quoted below:

'All went well for Tarm Sarm until one day, while his Sifu Lui Chang was away, he had a confrontation with a senior classmate, Ngan Yui Ting, and two of his family members. They all happened to be his ¡¥Si-Sook¡¦s¡¦ (his Sifu¡¦s fellow junior colleagues, or younger uncles), and Tarm Sarm subsequently beat up all three of them! After this, the incident was known as ¡¥Kuen Da Sarm Ngan¡¦, or ¡¥Fist Defeated Three Ngan¡¦s¡¦! '

The truth of the matter is, Ngan, Yiu Ting, was a closed-door disciple of Chan, Koon Pak for years, and never a student of Lui, Charn. Ngan, Yiu Ting also had only one brother who was not even in the martial arts arena. So the basis for what Vince mentioned about Ngan being Tam's senior and 'fist defeated three Ngan's' just can't stand on its own foot.

There was indeed a feud between Ngan and Tam, and the result of it was actually well documented in several historical text published in Guangzhou, China. I have read them all myself.
I will not disclose how the feud ended as this is unfair to all parties involved.

I have no interest to stir up any trouble, but just want to clarify a few things here about Ngan, Yiu Ting's life history....

For those of us who have not heard of Ngan, Yiu Ting , he was the late CLF master Ho, Ngau's sifu. Ngan's school was named 'jup sheng tong' in the BoonTong district in Guangzhou.
Ho Ngau was one of the students and I believe he was the only one managed to escape to Hong Kong after the communist take-over of China in 1949.

Choyleefutman

[JAZA]

May be is another Ngan Yiu Ting, coincidence of name is not uncommon.

[CLFNole]

I think he stated that Ngan Yiu Ting was Tam Sam's sisuk. That would make him Liu Chan's si dai and thus he would be Tam Sam's senior.

As far as the brothers and the whole story I don't know I have heard two versions, one having Tam Sam winning the other Ngan Yiu Ting.

Peace.

[SETANSI]

To avoid more long winded debates on clf history just relate your story ,instead of posting that some one else's lineage/history/story is incorrect.

We will all beleive what has been tought to us and any amount of posting here will not change that.

besides students of buk sing clf know Tarm Sarm never lost a fight, exept to his sifu.

[choyleefutman]

No problem...anyone can choose to believe what he wants to, but I believe what I read from various published articles in Guangzhou, China rather than from hearsays, etc. Truth might be heartbreaking and confidence-cracking, but I would not be afraid to accept it if it is well supported by various texts published by more than one agency...

and the purpose of my post initially is not to stir up any more long winding debates, but to point out some incorrect info about how Ngan yiu ting was described as 3 family members, etc. at buksing.com as I know something about the Ngan family history and the Chan family, a little more than some of us here as they had been quite low-profiled, especially after the 1949 communist take-over, that's all.

[JAZA]

Getting out of the polemic, a descendat of Ngan Yiu Ting is established in SF.
Ngan Cho Keong is his name
choyleefutman, do you have any contacts with him?

[yik-wah-tik]

man, is this fight ever going to end?

even i say this is rediculous now. where is the learning? where is the discussion? instead closet ninjas come out attack as always from the safety of their own little world.

i think that most of you should come out publicly with this information you believe to be real. throw it in the air and see where it falls. make your opinions known openly and yourselves accessible to those of us who know differently.

with all the resistance of the buk sing and hung sing schools all who are brining out the information publicly but all this debate is going as far as this forum. none of you will expose yourselves so keep it here. but the story is being researched and one thing is for sure the 100% truth will never be known. but we have actual living members who lived thru the clf explosion who openly state the chan family account is not true. i personally would like to learn info from a survivor than a later generation writer. lun chee has openly stated the true history, and has stated that the current account in incorrect from the chan point of view.

i have stepped away from this forum because it is a waste of time.
at least i am doing something about it other than sit in front of a computer arguing with the same old handful of hard headed people. for me now, this is only entertainment.

learn a few things here buddies!!!!!!!

[Serpent]

And yet, here you are again, Frank. You say the 100% truth will never be known, then you claim to know the Chan history is not true.

You've only ever been entertainment ever since you first appeared here.

[yik-wah-tik]

slurpent,

you bore me. dude! you can suck a ****!

as to your comment...........the chan family account is only a small
piece of the glorious history of clf. you fail to take into account the points of view of the buk sing and hung sing branches. choy lee fut could never choy lee fut without the hung sing and buk sing branches. have't you learned anything from the beatings master dave lacey has laid upon your poor souls?

so if you fail to acknowledge the hung sing and buk sing kwoons you are only 1/3 of the way. learn the hung sing and buk sing sides of the story then come back and talk to me.

the chan side of things has failed in producing hard evidence in proving the hung sing family wrong in our account of the history.
so as long as you argue a one sided shut the **** up

frank

[choyleefutman]

JAZA,

No, heard about him, but never met him as he is 6-7 hours away from me. Too far away as I live way up near Oregon.

[iron_silk]

Actually it is impossible to know the history 100%

The only self-serving view is from certain hungsing/buksing followers. Claiming CLF can never be and how Chan Heung is a little part and jueng yim is the glorious part...I mean please.

Everyone from then to now has helped make CLF glorious...or in your case notorious (I'm not trying to be cute)...in logic they all have and Chan Heung alone has. What is CLF if not something that people each generation improves upon. Even if you believe Jeung Yim to have learned from someone else...he would be merely adding to his master's existing glorious style to his own lineage (i.e. Hung Sing) or if he is so up to creating a style he can create his own! (much like how Chan Heung did)

And not trying to step in the glory of others, but would never do so to his own master. Or perhaps he didn't think much of his master and elevating his own status is ok with him, but probability unlikely for that period of time. Heck even for nowadays it's not too positive to do so.

Discussion enough??? =)

Oh please you trying to equate Buk Sing's Lineage as a full 1/3 of the history? Even if you believe Jeung Yim's part in the creation it doesn't make Buk Sing involved in the history we are discussing at all. Unless you are refering to it's own lineage and history...then you are simply talking about something else all together.

Hard evidence? You are the one to talk...not only does your "history" lack evidence it is literally grabbing for any little X-file like theory possible.

I know how Lacey behaved but even k-no agreed with me about his behaviour.

Seeing as how you are one that shouting hung sing history is the only right one why don't you...and may I quote you:

" so as long as you argue a one sided shut the **** up"

sorry I didn't mean to be insulting but you had to go on and say something like that...which is so fitting for yourself.

[Serpent]

Well said, Iron-silk.

Frank, you really don't seem to realise that you are the worst culprit of the things you accuse everyone else of. Dave Lacey laying beatings on our souls? His lunatic ravings are hardly beatings of any kind. He is just embarrassing himself and his lineage and his style.

You have supplied no solid evidence of anything.

You are shouting very loud a one sided argument.

I am well aware of the Hung Sing and Buk Sing histories. I'm not the one trying to shout so loud to make everyone believe in something new.

Please, take your own and Iron-Silk's advice.

[TenTigers]

Why is it that people have to make themselves appear great by bashing others, instead of having their art stand on its own merits? Is it at all possible to have both schools agree to disagree and just say that they both love CLF and be done with it? These fueds only make everyone look bad. A wing chun Sifu (who shall remain nameless) did the same thing, and has lost respect in the Wing Chun community as a result of his mudslinging. The fact of the matter is, nobody really cares. Who has so much free time on their hands that they are so concerned with the political BS? Wouldn't time be better spent teaching, improving their schools, students and themselves and helping spread this glorious art? or...not. your call.

[yik-wah-tik]

if you guys and um, *****es.....i mean slurpent getting his knees dirty, if you poosies (pussies) don't like my manner, who the **** cares? you are neither my friends or potential students so why should i show your sorry asses any respect. you know who i am who the hell are you?

sorry ass internet ninjas hair pai gangsters!

that is why you can so boldly attack because you are safe behind your computer screens. the way you talk **** here, i wouldn't be shocked if one of you actually lose your lives for all the smack you talk. and i do mean killed! so stay behind your safety walls!

talk is cheap. so is the quality of your gung fu! bithces!!!!

frank mccarthy
hsk-sf/futsan

[iron_silk]

Look at the poor baby!

When you can't talk your way through you start throwing threats against our lives.

When you fail to debate about history you attempt to change the topic to "gung fu"

This is a forum...of course we are behind computers. So when you fail to win an argument you like to threaten people physically right? That is what I am getting from your comments:

that is why you can so boldly attack because you are safe behind your computer screens. the way you talk **** here, i wouldn't be shocked if one of you actually lose your lives for all the smack you talk. and i do mean killed! so stay behind your safety walls!

Well I am certain you can kill me. In fact I am certain many people can kill me. My kung fu is non-existant. So the only thing I do see is that you like throwing your weight around and bully people with your physical ability when your mental capacity is limited.

The only thing I regret is that the stupid bickering has allowed you to return with more of your inane and insulting comments.

We never boasted or tried to threaten people like you. You are nothing but "talk" which makes you the cheapest of us all.

Doesn't matter what you claim or even if you are a teacher because you act like a child. Grow up!