sparring w/ a muy thai guy

[YungChun]

Originally posted by jun_erh
I was totally shocked the first time I received one of those kicks. Some one in my class said that out teacher knocked a guy out with one. A serious question: Do you think you could use chi to absorb the blow??? I mean you as in someone not you specifically necassarily

Just walk in to the darn thing. If you do it right the guy will fall over - sheesh. IMO round kicks are best left to tournement fighting.

[OneStrike]

LMAO @ Walking into a Muay Thai roundhouse. That'll work real well if you can get them to kick in slow motion.

[YungChun]

Originally posted by OneStrike
LMAO @ Walking into a Muay Thai roundhouse. That'll work real well if you can get them to kick in slow motion.

My point is to step in! When someone does a round kick the target distance is critical - more so IMO than even other kicks, which are sensitive anyway. In order for the RK to work the defender must not change distance more than about 7-10 inches closer or more distant.

If the 'defender' steps in let's say 10 inches (not much right?) Where will the kick land? It is jammed - the velocity of the attacking weapon is cut off AND in jamming the RK the balance of the kicker is also disrupted. The more you step in the more you will disrupt his balance - step in enough and he will fall on his a$$.

This is what intercepting is all about: The 'defender' must close in order to cut off the attack - breakdown structure and issue attacks. Counter attacks cannot be done very effectively by staying in one spot and 'blocking' or by retreating - both passive states.

[friday]

don't mt guys also have kicks that they hammer in with when they are in close? just something my friend told me today

[YungChun]

Originally posted by friday
don't mt guys also have kicks that they hammer in with when they are in close? just something my friend told me today

MT as most arts has weapons for the inside - they will normally try to clinch. Again, the important thing is to break them down and the way to best do this IMO is to intercept. That means going in - stealing balance and attacking as efficiently and quickly as possible.

[yenhoi]

quote friday:
don't mt guys also have kicks that they hammer in with when they are in close?

'Most' thai weapons can be used at 'close range.' There is a thread on the main forum somewhere, no clue about title, no blue about author, but on it SevenStar listed the entire arsenal of a typical thai fighter. Might be worth a search on SevenStar if your truely interested, or just goto a MT website

I disagree that the thai round kick is more sensitive to range then other kicks, but its very true that one of the best defenses is to jam the kick. In fact jamming is one of the best defenses to any technique thrown at you.

Something to remember when you do this, a lead round kick can switch to a rear knee (any type of knee) with about as much effort as it will take a 'defender' to change distance. A rear thai kick can too, it can also change to a teep (thai front kick). Thai rounds kicks are not always at the same angle - same mechanics, almost the same technique, angled up (standard), horizontal, and angled down (hazard!, my favorite). An expierenced thai will be able to look like hes throwing a round kick from the outside, and really be throwing a cut kick (round kick from inside). Also, very important, thai guys are not limited to thai boxing techniques, that left lead round kick could actually be a right lead (switch!) standard round kick, front kick, or oblique. I say this because if you make it your policy to move in on every thai round kick, your going to be not so pleasently greeted with some other kick, or some knees, not to mention what the evil thai will be doing with his elbows and head.

Or, do what the thais do - shin block (like 7* said), kick the supporting leg, or teep (stop kick) the offending round kick. You can also (depending on range of course) throw some sort of knee at him - at his kicking leg's thigh, or a side knee to upper body or supporting leg. Another note, thai round kick is not just a 'long' or 'medium' range weapon, it can be used at 'close' range, to great effect. Just thoughts - changing distance vs whatever attack is a great tactic, but keep your options open, cause his are.

[omarthefish]

If anything Thai round kicks are LESS sensitive to range changes. One of the nice things about such a blunt instrument. If you just step in closer your likely to get the knee instead of the shin.

Excellent point about the 'switch' kicks.

You can still step in and change the angle though. Shin blocks are a must but angling is even better. He kicks with a right rear, you simultaneously launch you left while angling off to your own right. You kick under his kick to the inside of his standing leg.

If you do ant to move in and jam his kick it needs to be combined with some kind of shoulder smash or body to body bump to knock him off balance when you get in. Hung-gar has a good downward fore arm block used in the 2 mans to block a front kick. If you smash the forearm down into the inguinal crease of his leg as you come in dropping your horse (with a right leg rear kick, your shoulder would be smacking into his chest held higher as insurance at this point) you can sometimes knock him right down on his but.

[YungChun]

Originally posted by omarthefish
If anything Thai round kicks are LESS sensitive to range changes.

Don't agree - IMO linear is less distance sensitive than circular

but...

Originally posted by omarthefish
You kick under his kick to the inside of his standing leg.

Thanks that's what I originally posted at the begining of this thread - we're going in.

When stepping in one does not step in and just stand there. Rather one's structure fills space, attacks and jams this can be done a number of ways. In my experience the attacker changing tactics in mid technique in response to visual stimuli happens more often in discussion than real life. Generating power from the knees is not the same dynamic as generating power in a round kick. The inside of the kick (like hitting a baseball too low on the bat) is weak and the stability of the kicker is even weaker IMO. I personally think taking it on the shins is unnecessary and constitutes playing along with the MT game - but to each his own.

Let the person who started this thread try out some of these different things and see what works for him - perhaps he can update us eventually.

[MA fanatic]

Those leg kicks are damaging. Keep in mind, he was also probably taking it easy, because most MuayThai guys condition their shins throw full power kicks and condition their shins in order to raise their leg and stop full power kicks. The face punches, just keep your hands up. I suggest ask the guy to show you some Muay Thai basics in exchange for some Kung Fu techniques. He may be interested in the various kicks and punches Kung Fu has to offer. All kicks are legal in Muay Thai. I remember once I was teaching a Muay Thai guy Korean kicks and he incorporated them beautifully. Just seek out some instruction or get a Muay Thai instructional video. There are a number of them on the market which are good.
MA fanatic

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by YungChun



My point is to step in! When someone does a round kick the target distance is critical - more so IMO than even other kicks, which are sensitive anyway. In order for the RK to work the defender must not change distance more than about 7-10 inches closer or more distant.

If the 'defender' steps in let's say 10 inches (not much right?) Where will the kick land? It is jammed - the velocity of the attacking weapon is cut off AND in jamming the RK the balance of the kicker is also disrupted. The more you step in the more you will disrupt his balance - step in enough and he will fall on his a$$.

This is what intercepting is all about: The 'defender' must close in order to cut off the attack - breakdown structure and issue attacks. Counter attacks cannot be done very effectively by staying in one spot and 'blocking' or by retreating - both passive states.

That's true for a high kick - possibly a mid, but doing that with a low kick, you're gonna end up eating elbows and catching knees. Another thing to keep in mind is speed. You can say, "just walk into it" but remember, you only hae a limited window of time to do so. And you have to consider distance. If you are in range for the guy to hit you with his instep and you step in, then you will get hit with his shin, which is what he would prefer anyway. If you make it past the shin, you'll be fairly safe, but the roundhouse can be extremely fast at low and midlevel heights.

Also, remember that MT does not chamber its roundhouse, nor does it make you lean back while kicking at low or mid height - you have a forward momentum. As you are stepping in, he's not rechambering his leg, he's bringing his weight down on it, and following with an elbow or punch since you are now in range.

That said, it's not impossible to step in on, but harder than you make it seem.

[jun_erh]

The roundhouse to the side/ back of the leg totally ****ed me up and it was even that hard a kick and I'm like 200 pounds. He just tagged me and "krunk"

[yenhoi]

They call that "technique."



Sometimes timing too.

[omarthefish]

Yung Chun,

Thanks that's what I originally posted at the begining of this thread - we're going in.

Yeah, I started out in Hung Gar so I llike going in too, but what I was trying to describe was actually using a round kick to the inner thigh, not a stomp kick to the hip joint. I tend to use the stomp against the kicking leg.

[Sharky]

YungChun, you have the gayest signature ever, i'm afraid.

[SifuAbel]

"If anything Thai round kicks are LESS sensitive to range changes. One of the nice things about such a blunt instrument. If you just step in closer your likely to get the knee instead of the shin."

Not a good idea.......

The knee is most likely locked on a round kick and even if it were not it would be soon enough and would snap like a celery stick.

Ever get kicked in the knee? It would be pretty much the same thing.

The only thing MT has, in my opinion, is that it trains very hard. Other than that their is nothing special or really different about the techniques.