Cma Nhb

[Le nOObi]

whoops forgot the link here it is
http://www.shenwu.com/yangtchnq.htm

[Chang Style Novice]

That "Fireman's Carry" application of "Snake Crawls on the Ground" is hardly similar at all to a double leg, though. Also, a crafty opponent can use the opportunity to go for a choke. It really seems to be all about the 'shoot' for most wrestling takedowns, from what little I know.

Which isn't to say that a drop onto the head from shoulder height like that isn't going to make someone wish they'd never been born, if it gets off. And if you still have wrist control as they go down, the droppee is even more hosed.

[SevenStar]

They do, but they don't focus on it. Alot of Japanese styles have it also, but it's not a focus. If you want to work grappling, you need to train with styles that focus on it.

Most grappling will probably look very similar among styles, as there are really only so many ways to manipulate the body. The fireman's carry you posted is also in judo - kata guruma.

Here's one that looks like the greco version:

http://www.santanijudo.com/Dropkataguruma2.MOV

this one is done standing, like the taiji one you posted:

http://www.santanijudo.com/kataguruma2.MOV


Don't many forms of taiji have a shuai chiao influence?

[SevenStar]

I was looking at the taiji clip again - it looks like the guy getting thrown is off balanced backwards instead of forwards - seems like that would make the technique harder to pull off.

[Stacey]

in 8 step we call this chuan dang

First priority is standing and its done by getting the attention up high and drawing them out. If they are too heavy, the back leg drops flat and iti s done in the way of the judo video.


However, our snake creeps down application is not chuan dang. Its much more like wrestling.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by SevenStar
From what I know of it (I don't use it much, so maybe WD , MonkeySlapToo, neptunesfall or GGL can add more, but the SC double leg doesn't require you to step as deep into the opponent to use it, as the head is used as the fulcurm point to make your opponent fall. with the neck just left out like that, it seems like it would leave you wide open for a guillotine.

Actually, the double-leg as I was taught does use the head as a fulcum point.

http://www.catchwrestle.com/forum/sh...=&threadid=139

You can see in the pictures how his head, with his body and leg behind it, drive to the right, while his arms sweep the legs to the left.

Having tried numerous times to get the guillotine off of a successful sprawl, I can tell you that using the head in this way doesn't leave you wide open... mainly because the neck is tucked close against the opponent's body.

[FatherDog]

The fireman's carry has a similar penetration step to the double-leg, but the mechanics of the two are very different.

Also, while an excellent takedown in greco or freestyle, I wouldn't bet on using a fireman's carry in a submission or MMA format. If the guy closes his legs on your arm, you'll wind up going down with him, and he'll have control of at least one of your arms. Anyone who saw Gary Goodridge's first fight in UFC 1 can look at that as an excellent reason why that's a very, very bad thing.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by FatherDog


Actually, the double-leg as I was taught does use the head as a fulcum point.

http://www.catchwrestle.com/forum/sh...=&threadid=139

You can see in the pictures how his head, with his body and leg behind it, drive to the right, while his arms sweep the legs to the left.

Having tried numerous times to get the guillotine off of a successful sprawl, I can tell you that using the head in this way doesn't leave you wide open... mainly because the neck is tucked close against the opponent's body.

Interesting! I have to sign up for that forum to get to the tread though - I'm getting ready to do that now. I learned something new today (assuming that it is true) - Abe Lincoln was a catch wrestler.

[Chang Style Novice]

Seven

I'm pretty sure all taichi has a shuai chiao influence, to varying degrees, since SC is so old. And naturally, Chang style Taichi is brimming over with SC.

[SevenStar]

I thought you joined - I noticed someone named CSN that joined today. I get the same message you do - you have to wait until you get the email, I think.

[Chang Style Novice]

me, too, and I deleted my previous post. I didn't pay enough attention to the registration message and didn't go to my email.

[neptunesfall]

in shuai chiao, the firemans carry type throw is done in conjunction with a strike to the groin. done properly, the chance of someone closing their legs are slim.
as for the double leg (embracing is the throw that's being referred to, i believe), the head is held against the opponents body; little or no chance of a choke being applied. the same goes for the single leg; a variation on embracing or shaving.

[SevenStar]

yeah, it's held against the opponent's body - but the neck is exposed some, if we are talking about the same technique.

[neptunesfall]

i joined that forum, it seems pretty cool.

if embracing is done from the front, the neck is definitely exposed, no question. if done from the side or rear gates, there's no exposure.
from the side, the shoulder is flush against their body, with the head against the back...might catch an elbow to the shoulder, but thats it.
done from rear gate, the head and neck are flush to the opponents back, no chance of getting hit.
personally i prefer embracing from the rear gate.

[Chang Style Novice]

personally i prefer embracing from the rear gate

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