Cma Nhb

[neptunesfall]

LOL
i said rear gate, not back door!

[SevenStar]

rear gate? Is that what you kids are calling it nowadays?

[neptunesfall]

hey i don't even watch queer as folk!

[SevenStar]

Have you ever worn Secret?

[neptunesfall]

no, i can say for sure that i haven't.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by neptunesfall
i joined that forum, it seems pretty cool.

It's a pretty informative place.

if embracing is done from the front, the neck is definitely exposed, no question. if done from the side or rear gates, there's no exposure.
from the side, the shoulder is flush against their body, with the head against the back...might catch an elbow to the shoulder, but thats it.
done from rear gate, the head and neck are flush to the opponents back, no chance of getting hit.

As I was taught, a shoot from the front doesn't go straight in to the front. You penetration step into the opponent, then bring the other leg up and "turn the corner". So in a sense, the double-leg as I was taught goes from the front gate to the side gate (as you describe the side gate position, that is).

[Le nOObi]

Originally posted by SevenStar
They do, but they don't focus on it. Alot of Japanese styles have it also, but it's not a focus. If you want to work grappling, you need to train with styles that focus on it.

In my opinion this is an unfair generalization. Stand up grappling is very important to practictioners of many chinese styles for instance the taichi fighter Chen Zhaojia used a throw to K.O. muaythai fighter montong.

[neptunesfall]

mmm...he said Japanese, not Chinese.

[Le nOObi]

Originally posted by neptunesfall
mmm...he said Japanese, not Chinese.

He said " japanese styles have it also meaning that there are
japanese styles AND chinese styles
whichhave some grappling in them but do not focus on it. Also in context it was a reply to a post a made about the fact that there are chinese styles besides shoy chiao that have alot of grappling.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Le nOObi


In my opinion this is an unfair generalization. Stand up grappling is very important to practictioners of many chinese styles for instance the taichi fighter Chen Zhaojia used a throw to K.O. muaythai fighter montong.

I'll agree. It was unfair. When you say "Many styles have a wrestling component" I'm thinking more along the lines of styles that have it, but don't focus on it. since it's "a component" that tells me that grappling is only a portion of their training. If you check the style out and see that grappling is a major component, then sure, train with them. Some TKD schools teach throws, but if I want to perfect my throwing, I'm not going there.

[SevenStar]

On a side note, I'm not sure about the accuracy of that fight. There was a debate about it on KFO a while back (like a year ago) - matter of factly, I'm the one that brought up the Chen Zhaojia fight, if I remember correctly. But it was pointed out that there are sites that say he didn't win ans that he was KOed by knees in the first round. Here's one of them:

http://members.tripod.com/~crane69/index6d.htm

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

maybe its just cause im small and have had people try to pick me up a lot, but i can think of a bunch of things to do when up on someones shoulders like that. i think the fireman's carry thing is way more risk than reward.

[SevenStar]

I doubt I'd actually attempt it in a fight, but I've had pretty good success in randori with it. I do the crouching version. They are only on my shoulders for a few seconds, and they are being rolled forward, in addition to me having control of one of their arms. After it's done, you can turn over and maintain control of them. Out of curiousity, what would you do in the few second that you are in the air?

[Braden]

Crouching fireman's carry is great counter-grappling IMHO. Haven't read the thread... just waiting for an America's Army round to finish.

[Le nOObi]

Originally posted by SevenStar
On a side note, I'm not sure about the accuracy of that fight. There was a debate about it on KFO a while back (like a year ago) - matter of factly, I'm the one that brought up the Chen Zhaojia fight, if I remember correctly. But it was pointed out that there are sites that say he didn't win ans that he was KOed by knees in the first round. Here's one of them:

http://members.tripod.com/~crane69/index6d.htm

I havent seen the fight myself to tell the truth. I believe the claims that montong was K.O.ed via throw since i have heard it posted by people like Lkfmdc who is no doubt better educated on the history of muaythai vs. kungfu then that crane69 guy is. maybe you should send Lkfmdc a private message.