Forgive me-political, off topic, but important

[KC Elbows]

I put this in another thread, but it really deserves its own thread. Please read the article. It sure sounds like innocents are being interred in California. It's supposed to occur nationwide, whatever it is.

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid...at=immigration

[Dark Knight]

This is an example of when Ben Franklin said Those who will give up a freedom for a security dont deserve eigther.

We have to decide for the protction of our country how much we freedom we can take from people. Is this right to do? Its understandable that the government is trying to protect us, but at what cost.

[KC Elbows]

Were germans interred in WWII on a large scale, or do we reserve that for those a little tanner?

[Radhnoti]

From the article:
"INS spokesman Arcaute said those arrested had violated immigration laws, overstayed their visas, or were wanted for crimes. " So...the INS claims they are just doing their job.

But, I do agree that it's unlikely that someone in a terrorist cell would have voluntarily come in to register as these folks chose to do.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Radhnoti
From the article:
"INS spokesman Arcaute said those arrested had violated immigration laws, overstayed their visas, or were wanted for crimes. " So...the INS claims they are just doing their job.

But, I do agree that it's unlikely that someone in a terrorist cell would have voluntarily come in to register as these folks chose to do.

No, it's incredibly unlikely. It's highly unlikely that any of these people with any real criminal offense came in to register. Somone on another forum said that the only criminal offense most of these people had was to miss monday's deadline for registering their race(trying to find the BBC article this came from). I would have missed it too.

Remember, that's a quote by a spokesman for an organization doing something rather shady, the sort of thing we apologize for after the war(ask the japanese-americans from WWII). Spokesmen are not generally good sources of info.

[Mokujin]

I'm confused. I'm sure the ACLU and others are quick to draw the similarities between this and Jews in concentration camps and Japanese internment camps, but I'm not so sure.

It looks like a sensationalized story with more emotion than content

Are these folks true citizens? According to the article, they were breaking a law: "...program that requires all males over 16 from a list of 20 Arab or Middle East countries, who do not have permanent resident status in the United States, to register with U.S. immigration authorities."

They had a deadline and didn't register- so they're in violation. They broke the law and got busted. They're NOT American citizens.

Let me know if I'm missing anything.

PS- No, it's unlikely Osama would have shown up, but there are families that might be tied to terrorists who have not come forward to fess up.

-Mokujin

[red5angel]

I think Germans were interred as well KC but remember, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and the backlash was putting Japanese-Americans in camps. I am not making excuses by any means, just telling you what I know.

I was reading an article on cnn about Iraq. Anyway, you know what really ****es me off about this whole thing? Let's go to war, let's trash Saddams regime so Iraq can't support terrorism, but let's not spend 6 FREAKIN MONTHS ADVERTISING IT SO THEY CAN GET DUG IN!!!!!!!!!!
I blame the UN for the untold number of deaths accrued over the war that is inevitable because we gave them time to get dug in good and deep.


Also, just to underline Mokujins point, we send Mexican immigrants back to Mexico all the time who are here illegally, we probbaly did it to quite a few non-US citizens, I know 2 Canadians who were deported for god sakes! I think this is mostly sensationalism.

[dnc101]

On the surface, this looks like an over reaction by our government. But I wouldn't fly off the handle yet. It did say that only those who were in violation of the law were detained- others were released or never arrested. And, of those in custody, some may yet be released. Their best assurance of fair treatment is that we as citizens speak up and demand it without accusing INS of filling concentration camps with dark skined people- yet. If that is found to be the case, then we definately should demand change.

By the way, I've dealt with INS, and they hold a very COLD spot in my heart- the _______s.

[dezhen2001]

sensationalism and propaganda lead to people being forced to make harsh decisions (to fulfil the expectation)... imo

Islamic community leaders said many of the detainees had been living, working and paying taxes in the United States for five or 10 years, and had families here.

The Iranian protesters said many of those detained were victims of official delays in processing visa and green card requests.

**** paperwork huh?

But on that level, what about the Muslims like me who convert? The example of the sniper guy was a good one - he was a revert to Islam... does that mean soon ALL Muslims will have to register?

dawood

[dezhen2001]

but remember, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and the backlash was putting Japanese-Americans in camps.

so? many for eg. okinawan americans faught in the war on the american side as well...

It did say that only those who were in violation of the law were detained- others were released or never arrested. And, of those in custody, some may yet be released.

yup, a clear headed post hopefully many people will be released because of the paperwork issue and because they are actually here legally. students for example and others are also said to have been detained.

dawood

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Mokujin
I'm confused. I'm sure the ACLU and others are quick to draw the similarities between this and Jews in concentration camps and Japanese internment camps, but I'm not so sure.

Not talking about Japanese camps, talking about american camps where japanese-americans were held. Not death camps, rude poorly thought out camps.

It looks like a sensationalized story with more emotion than content

Sometimes sensational things happen. Notice them happening a lot lately?

Are these folks true citizens?

They're not being deported, they are being imprisoned, EDIT- I suppose I shouldn't use the word interred yet, but if this is to happen nationwide, those are some massive numbers of people held prisoner yet having no known ties to terrorism.

According to the article, they were breaking a law: "...program that requires all males over 16 from a list of 20 Arab or Middle East countries, who do not have permanent resident status in the United States, to register with U.S. immigration authorities."

They had a deadline and didn't register- so they're in violation. They broke the law and got busted. They're NOT American citizens.

Let me know if I'm missing anything.

Yes, you are missing quite a bit. Many of those people came in to register when they were arrested.

PS- No, it's unlikely Osama would have shown up, but there are families that might be tied to terrorists who have not come forward to fess up.

-Mokujin

Osama? Might? No one with ties to terorism would come in to be printed, period. These people will be your neighbors in ten years. Assuming they decide to stay after this.

[KC Elbows]

And again, I haven't read the word deported in that article.

[Mokujin]

KC Elbows-

1- My mistake for not being more clear- I meant camps in America where Japanese-Americans (citizens) were being held. So far, I don't see a comparison.

2- I thinks it news- but not as sensational as the ACLU want us to believe.

3- They were past the deadline, period. I had an expired TX inspection sticker which I got ticketed for. I was going to get around to it later in the week (honest), but the police officer didn't care. I still got a ticket because I was in violation of the law. Same applies here. Everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions.

4- I have no doubt these people will stay. It's better than the alternative.

But I will keep a close eye on the story as it develops. I know our government doesn't have the best track record for these things and I would prompt everyone to stay tuned.

-Mokujin

[Laughing Cow]

Rights and freedoms ONLY exist on Paper.
Apart from that they are an illusion used to pacifiy the masses.

Just my Opinion.

R5A.
You are right about giving warnings before attacking. Guess you Guys should have learned from Pearl Harbour.

Hit quick and minimise damage to own personnel.

Just look at the current Missile Shield, going up in 2 years and already announced as not being effective.

In short the USA is saying we got a weak spot so come and hit it.

Have fun all.

[dnc101]

dawood- figured to see you here, and glad you joined in.

The second quote in your last post was mine. I should add that we shouldn't expect INS to act too quickly. One, they never do when it comes to releasing people or allowing them to stay. And two, we do have to consider that they have a tough job here. If they let someone go and he later self destructs and kills someone in the process, we'll all be demanding some heads at INS. As little as I like them, we do have to be sensible and not overreact. But at the same time, we must be vigilant and demand fair treatment of these people. It is true that they aren't US citizens, and they don't enjoy the same rights as citizens, but that doesn't mean we should tolerate unfair or heavy handed treatment. Over reaction, by all parties, causes internal strife. This is one of the main goals of terrorism. To either automatically attack our government, or to condone unfair treatment of any one here, is to concede victory to terrorism.