Iron Thread Fist???

[hongkongfooey]

what is iron thread fist in hung gar?

[Sho]

Tit Sin Kuen is considered to be the highest in rank most difficult form in Hung Gar. Techniques should be executed so that they are as hard as iron but as soft as a thread.

[hongkongfooey]

how is that possible?..to be hard as iron and soft as thread?..confusing

[hasayfu]

confusing? That's why it's high level.

What is you exposure to Hung Gar? That will help in framing an answer. The most basic response about the set is that it teaches the internal concepts of Hung Gar. Those that think Hung Gar is a purely external art are not high level.

Entire books have been written on the subject.

[Firebird]

Tid Sin Kuen is mainly for developing Chi.
You produce three different sounds, for the five organs: heart , liver, lungs, kidneys , ...
connected with the five elements.
It is the last form You learn in Hung Gar.
People who practice already the form could tell You more, If You learn Hung Gar ask Your classmates.

[SETANSI]

Is iron thread the same as iron wire?

[Firebird]

Yes

[ursa major]

Originally posted by hongkongfooey
how is that possible?..to be hard as iron and soft as thread?..confusing

The internal training for Iron & Thread starts much earlier in the lower forms such as Kung-Tse, Tiger & Crane, 10 Forms, etc although in these forms the practitioner is given less focused insights into Chi and internal training.

As you move 'up' in the Hung-Gar system more emphasis is given to internal training until Iron & Thread which is specific in it's focus and is entirely devoted to internal strength training -- other wise known as 'Chi'.

How to be hard and soft ? You already are -- all that is required is to be trained in how to take advantage of it.

regards,
UM.

[LawClansman]

This subject was recently posted:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...light=albright


Hope this info helps.

[ironbridge#9]

iron wire or iron thread helps build internal power ..in most hung schools you start out learning external power ..conditioning ect..the further you get along in your forms you start learning the internal aspects of the forms youve already learned ..the most advanced being iron wire..which along with building internal power helps to strengthen your internal organs...but ..i must say that when practiced wrong iron wire is a dangerous form....it can lead to internal damage and even broken bones...it is an advanced form ..which the other hung ga forms prepare you for..which is why it is rarely or even never taught to begining students..having said that i also must say that when taught and performed properley..you will after much practice develop unbeleivable power...i love iron wire and if you practice hung ga you should really look foward to learning the form...

[LawClansman]

The notion that one will be injured if practicing the Wire Set is a myth. Simply started to keep people away from it and as usual in
Chinese Martial Arts to give added mystique by playing the old "secrets" card. In my 40 years in the Hung Gar system, I have never heard of anyone sustaining any type of injury from improper practice of the wire set.
Futhermore, different branches of Hung practice the wire differently. So by the original statement, everybody except one branch should be keeling over after having practiced it "wrong" for so many years.
I know that there is an E book available on the wire set that is translated with Mandarin sounds. In many cases completely different from the original Cantonese sounds. If there was an incorrect way to practice the set, this would be it. The sounds are to be in their original Cantonese to effectively coincide with the internal organs.
Since there are so many variations of this set, who is right??
If you use the Lam Sai Wing book as your guide, then the Lam family is the only one practicing it that way. But Hung Gar exists in other lineages than the Lam family. So does the wire set.

[tparkerkfo]

Hello Carl,

Excellent observations. I am just beggining the quest you started a long time ago, so I don't have as good information as you do. But I think you might be slightly overlooking somethings, or maybe I am way off base. Feel free to correct my train of thought here.

Many people can practice Iron Wire without major injury as well as practice it without major benefits. There is a skill in doing it. If I just bought a video and stepped through the sequences I would not really learn the set. Would I injure myself? I couldn't tell you. But I doubt it is the phsycial coreography or even the words that help or hurt you. But it is how it is done.

We all run all the time. Nothing really special about running. Kids do it, adults do it, even older people do it. Not to many places specialize in teaching the proper fundimentals of running. And there is great benifits in running. But, it is also dangerous. You can damage you ligiments, you can fall down, or perhaps pull a muscle. If your playing with Chi and you do so improperly, You may run the risk of some injury. That is, if you beleive the theory of cultivating chi and such.

Out of curriosity, what purpose and benefit is Iron Wire for you? Is it for developing Chi or something else?

Just the thoughts of a Hung Gar novice,
Tom
________
Jailbroken

[WanderingMonk]

Sifu Carl,

May I ask you a question? How would the concepts of swallow-float-spit-sink translate into the 12 keywords of iron threads. I thought yao kiu might correspond with swallow; gong kiu might correspond to spit, etc. Could you spare the time to give some pointers?

thanks

wm

[ironbridge#9]

i can say it is more then just a rumor that you can occur injury..i know of two cases where tw differant people injured their ribs and one person that suffered tendon damage on there forearm...due to over exertion...it can be dangerous..im not saying that everyone who practices it will get injured..im just saying that when practiced incorrectley it can be dangerous..

[TenTigers]

I agree with TietKiuGow ;-) I also know of two people who were injured when learning the wire form improperly. I was one of them. I did not heed my Sifu's advice and ate either too soon before or after(don't remember which) and suffered a severe strain of the diaphragm region-more like the area running down the lower edge of the ribcage on one side for about ten days.-okay, so I was a dumb kid. (I am MUCH wiser now! (yeah, right.) A training brother was not so lucky, and has done permanant damage to himself, some sort of tendon/groin/abdominal thing-but he cannot do much of anything anymore. Not so much of an urban myth. Face it, you can injure yourself doing anything if you train foolishly.