An even more important new law (in NY)

[shaolinboxer]

Section 1. The commissioner of education is hereby directed within six months of the effective date of this act to require the licensure of martial arts instructors and of any school, institution, organization, business or other entity which offers martial arts instruction and to promulgate rules and regulations necessary for such purpose.
>
>S 2. This act shall take effect immediately.

http://65.119.177.201/cgi-bin/ubb/ul...c&f=9&t=001668

Guys and gals,

This even even more serious than the previous law that is being petitioned on this site. This not only effects tournaments (which, although important, are not absolutely necessary), it effects every single martial arts school in NY.

At best, we'll all have to pay a fee and be done with it. However, I suspect that there will be some fairly strict regulations regarding this license. Perhaps MA school staff will have to be certified in first aid, or perhaps they have to be certified as a teacher in NY state....we'll find out in the next six months.

I suggest that, instead of protesting laws that are deemed necessary not only by the public but also by the dominant forces within the martial arts in the United States, we concentrate on satifying these new requirements to the best of our ability. In the long run it will add significant credibility to our schools, and to the martial arts in general.

Good luck to all.

-Lyle Bogin

[shaolinboxer]

Here's the direct URL:

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A04415&sh=t

[ZIM]

you know, i'm kind of torn on this...i know you've been posting info on it, and good work for that, btw, but the reason why their doing it is ok, in alot of ways, imo.

i believe the initial reason for the proposal was to screen instructors and limit contact with kids in cases where there are those found to be child abusers or to have records of the same... thats something i can't argue against. but it has grown a little out of that context...

i think stronger language to specify & limit it to that intent- and to add in sexual assault of all kinds- would allay many fears that MAs in ny may have...perhaps you'd gain more ground for influence that way?

Any how, it may not apply at all to schools with no kid's classes, altho it still opens the door to regulation..

OTOH, i was looking at the NYS dept of educ. site... if its done willy-nilly, with MA schools lumped in with 'proprietary' schools, then its VERY bad news, as most will go out of business right quick. in that instance, not only is screening done, but also submission of stats, enforced display of certifications [for school and instructors], published catalogs are required [i suppose its a write-off?] etc etc basically a lot of oversight, fees and taxes, ppl to pay off.

so, maybe go further- work with them to throw out sloppy language... contact the NYS B o' E commissioner for that... my $.02..

[lkfmdc]

I did try to warn people about this also, I got a bunch of "just go underground" type responses

the proposed bill is here
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A04415

This will effect EVERY martial art school in the state.
This bill was introduced by Robert A. Straniere. His personal web page can be found at
http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/?ad=062

Robert A. Straniere
DISTRICT OFFICE
182 Rose Avenue
Staten Island, NY 10306
718-667-0314

He also has email that you can send him from that page, send him a note saying that the last thing New York needs is more regulation and putting people out of work through over regulation and lord knows what sort of licensing...

Use this page
http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/
if you are a NY'er to find your representative and also send them a note

to make things even easier, there are several NYC area people on the committee reviewing the legislation, all of us should get people to call them

Deborah Glick
853 Broadway, Suite 2120
New York, NY 10003
212-674-5153

Richard Gottfried
242 West 27th Street
New York, NY 10001
212-807-7900

Nick Perry
942 Utica Avenue, Brooklyn, NY 11203
718-385-3336

Scott Stringer
230 West 72nd Street, Suite 2F
New York, NY 10023
212-873-6368

If you have students in their districts, even better as they will VOTE for them, or NOT as the case may be

call and email them, and if you aren't a NY'er I'd share my view anyway, they will feel how unpopular this is and maybe worry a little more

The bill specifically mentions licenses, specifically licenses under the dept of education. Are these licenses going to be FREE? Of course they won't. There will be "application fees", the license fee, perhaps you'll have to pay to be fingure printed, to have a background check etc. Basicly, it's yet another way, in addition to taxes, to pay the government

Background checks? OK. What about a Chinese gentleman who can't even provide you with a birth certificate because his village happened to have been burned down during World War II? Considering a lot of the top martial arts instructors are from the places these arts originated in, ie NOT the US, isn't this going to be difficult?

And what if an inquiry from the home country comes up as them having a record? Well, my lord, they are a criminal! Don't let them run a martial arts school. EXCEPT, crimes in other countries aren't what we would necessarilly call crimes here in the dear U S of A. I know someone who is not only a world champion in their sport, but the sweetest, nicest, most humane person in teh world. But they spent time in prison and are a criminal in their country. Why you ask? They are Iranian and in their country having wine is a CRIME.

Once again, I present the possibility there will be an "approved list". As you know, a law doesn't have to be fair, it just has to be a law.

[ZIM]

I'm seeing your points. These are difficulties that initially seem very insurmountable, and i do share your concern about the oversight and fees, etc. i've signed the petition, and i'm suggesting that inclusion in process may forestall error on the part of gov't.

only one quibble: i've met and dealt with a few child abusers. they almost universally come off as the sweetest, nicest, most humane persons in the world. if it comes down to it, in this case, i'd rather they don't teach kids... call it a sense of 'unworthiness to pass down the lineage', if you wish. its not something i'd overlook. again, it comes down to the type of record, not the simple fact of a record. if it did, practically no one could teach, given the fact that many teachers were kinda rough growing up...

[Cody]

Frankly, I haven't followed the evolution of governmental involvement in martial arts schools. I think that there would be (or could be) adequate alternatives for doing background scans on personnel (for abusive history), just as there are when hiring someone anywhere. This, without increased beaurocracy and monitoring. No matter what checks and balances, instances of different kinds of abuse of both children and adults are unlikely to be entirely halted by goverment eyes. I think that martial arts schools, unless operating totally within the curriculum of a local education system, ought to operate independently. Have their own standards. If the standards of performance of teachers are uneven, that is the responsibility of the art. If the art is practiced different ways in different places. Again, the art is responsible. And, imo, responsible individual expression is not unwelcome. Enforced standardization is not one of my preferences, in case you haven't guessed.

Given the climate in this country. the whole HomeLand Security bs, which sends chills up my spine. Bush's speech yesterday, which I couldn't sit through. I am seeing the possibility for more control over places where people are taught to fight back against Anyone who molests them, their rights, their freedom to be what they are. This might not have been the original intent of the movement to control martial arts education, but I do wonder if down road some, that could become a factor. I would not like for us to have to develop new hand signals to acknowledge membership in a non-government operated facility.

Cody

[Goldenmane]

Here's some interesting sites:

List of occupations requiring licenses in NY

License requirements for Interior Designer for example

The second link is the more disturbing, if it is taken as an example of the licensing requirements likely to be put into place.

-geoff

[Cody]

Goldenmane. You're right about second link. That was enlightening. (whose morality?)

Way back when, there didn't seem to be as much certification as there has come to be. It was my opinion that some of it was due to competition for jobs which sparked bright lights in the educational field to fill their coffers with money from people who needed to get certified in order to even get started. I guess it first came to my attention in the legal assistants field. On the job training was replaced by a series of courses that cost, I believe, close to $3,000 at that time.
Licensing comes in handy in some fields. Like, it's nice to know that the person coloring your hair won't turn it inadvertently purple and make it fall out with a brush stroke. when the world was smaller, maybe it wasn't so easy for someone to just fly in and say "I can do that."
I kind of prefer the old ways of apprenticeship and training for many things.
Oh, I forgot. legal entanglements. assurances that the person performing the job is truly qualified.
I know from friends that going from state to state to teach is a pain in the xxx, getting recertified.

Cody