what is this ????

**Chinwoo-er** · 03-13-2003, 04:31 AM

You know, if this is what the future of karate is, this is seriously scaring me.
First wushu, now karate. Wrestling seems to be on the way down this path. This whole thing is a conspiricy. The acrobat and the circus is phasing out martial arts. What's next ? Grappling while people are in the middle of a jump ? Swordfights using juggling techniques ? Fencing on a tightrope ?¡@Pretty soon, we will be performing katas/forms with animals !!

Brothers and sisters, it is time to rise up and fight back !!!\

Hail ! Hail ! Hail !

**Vapour** · 03-13-2003, 05:13 AM

In regard to kung-fu for display vs. kung fu for fighting debates, I want to point out that acrobatic itself is not necessarily bad from martial point of view.

http://www.style2ouf.com/

Once you on the site, click union jack flag for English page, then click video on the menu. Once you done that choose Capoeira. Check out the video "Lino, Isaac & Olivier" at the near bottom of the page but any other video would still do. By the way, historical capoeira fighter in real fight had knife or club on their hand and used lot of headbutt.

In my view, competitive sparing is one way to keep martial arts styles from degenerating into meaningless dance. O.K. I know how bad competitive sparing is if the rules are badly designed like point scoring system for karate/tkd. Then, I think judo is superbly designed sport for grapling&throw and tui shou (pushing hand/sticky hand) is excellent for the power and in-fighting. For what I see from the vid, capoeira has their own good sparing system which is designed for their particular fighting system.

**Crimson Phoenix** · 03-13-2003, 07:34 AM

yes...it's Steve Terada...

these are the now infamous "artistic martial arts"...doing funky tricks and wild poses to some grooving tunes...
I can't stand that crap...well, but at least the guys are clear about what they do, and don't try to pass it of as martial arts like the wushu does sometimes

anyway...they are tremendous athlete for sure...but the whole concept of it depresses me...

**SevenStar** · 03-13-2003, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by Vapour
In regard to kung-fu for display vs. kung fu for fighting debates, I want to point out that acrobatic itself is not necessarily bad from martial point of view.

http://www.style2ouf.com/

Once you on the site, click union jack flag for English page, then click video on the menu. Once you done that choose Capoeira. Check out the video "Lino, Isaac & Olivier" at the near bottom of the page but any other video would still do. By the way, historical capoeira fighter in real fight had knife or club on their hand and used lot of headbutt.

In my view, competitive sparing is one way to keep martial arts styles from degenerating into meaningless dance. O.K. I know how bad competitive sparing is if the rules are badly designed like point scoring system for karate/tkd. Then, I think judo is superbly designed sport for grapling&throw and tui shou (pushing hand/sticky hand) is excellent for the power and in-fighting. For what I see from the vid, capoeira has their own good sparing system which is designed for their particular fighting system.

The thing about capoeira is that it's not acrobatic in application. Caporeistas do alot of infighting - takedowns, elbows and headbutts. If you look at that vid, you can see it in there. I've got a nice vid of a takedown from capoeira that I may have posted before - If not, and anyone's interested, I'll put it up somewhere. Acrobatic karate and wushu, as far as I know, is meant to be showy, and all of the flips and flash don't have any real application, like in the vid that was posted here.

**Chinwoo-er** · 03-13-2003, 09:24 AM

Hey, there are plenty more here

http://xp3.aliencreations.com/videos.html

**norther practitioner** · 03-13-2003, 10:24 AM

Good athlete.....
I've seen better "creative" forms locally....however that one acrobatic sequence was good.

The forms are fun, the balance is good, the practice it takes a lot of these "martial" artist to get there could be better spent IMHO. I have fun practicing the 2 wushu sequences I know, however, that is a definite side project.

**Suntzu** · 03-13-2003, 10:53 AM

its like Streetfighter but with a real dude…

**Rolling Elbow** · 03-13-2003, 11:05 AM

The problem with Capoeira isn't the moves they pull off (saw some awesome demo the other night), it is the fact that they likely do not practice their movements against any type of attacks in order to get the feel of the technique..after all, its hard to with the kicks and leaping...done fast and including the hands and head, i can't see why it could not be applied....I see its merit though..Takada or whatever his name was over doing the jumping kicks... much better when the hands are supporting off the ground and the torso is bending everywhich way to kick you from different deceptive angles..

**TjD** · 03-13-2003, 11:15 AM

seems a lot like that thing they do in the olympics. part of gymnastics, where they dance around the mat and do jumping flips and such

he was impressive... should probably try out for that instead of calling it karate

**dezhen2001** · 03-13-2003, 11:38 AM

i respect the skill he has and have seen much like that here in the UK too... not my cup of tea but sometimes i wish i could do that sh|t

tjd: imagine someday we may have a SLT with acrobatics to split up the 3 sections! Wushu wing chun!

dawood

**kungfuyou** · 03-13-2003, 12:17 PM

Ernie Reyes West Coast Martial Arts style of Karate. I have seen their demonstrations a few times. All the kids get involved in doing these types of manuevers, even the teen's to young adults. Looks great for crowds, just not quite sure how effective it is!! Takes a good athlete to perform the way they do, and look good doing it!!

**Golden Arms** · 03-13-2003, 12:57 PM

No comment

**Viper555** · 03-13-2003, 02:46 PM

I think he was shooting for it to look really cool. If that was his goal then he accomplished it. If you ever go to sport competitions that is the **** right there that wins the form divisions. Who's to say he can't fight though? Like I said, he could have been putting on a show so he could win the form division but maybe he can fight pretty good if he had to.

**Serpent** · 03-13-2003, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by KungFuGuy!
As far as I know, it's non-existant. He trains for what he's doing in that video.

Then he's not a karate exponent. He's a gymnast/acrobat/entertainer.

**Laughing Cow** · 03-13-2003, 05:10 PM

He looks good, not what I would like to do though.

As for fighting skills, he might have them.
If he hasn't got them I reckon it will only take a very short time for him to get them.
He has already a lot of the basics, fitness, dexterity and so on down pat.

Combine his current skill with 2~3 yrs of solid MA study and he could be a force to be reckoned with.

I believe the same to be true for many Wushu guys.

Just some thoughts.

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