ALL IRAQ topics here.

[Laughing Cow]

PaulH.

That is 1 of many articles I read, many other say that those cheerings are isolated and only in small numbers.

That many are too afraid to show open support as they fear a repeat of 1991 when the UN troops moved out and many of them were killed for supporting the foreign troops.

Also don't forget that this is the first and biggest wave of euphoria, ask those same people again in 6mnths to a year and many might have changed their tune.

Just my thoughts naturally.

[PaulH]

Again, you may be right but can you deny the raw emotions that are sweeping across Iraq now from farmers to a taxicab drivers, the young and the old alike? I do believe that the torch of liberty has been lit and the Iraqi will carry it to the end of their land.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by PaulH
Again, you may be right but can you deny the raw emotions that are sweeping across Iraq now from farmers to a taxicab drivers, the young and the old alike? I do believe that the torch of liberty has been lit and the Iraqi will carry it to the end of their land.

I can't deny it, but it is a flame that needs to be fed and nurtured well and careful.

Otherwise it can turn into a firestorm that does more damage than good.

Stumblefist:

I agree with what you wrote for a change.


I guess they learned a lot in Afghanistan.

[diego]

Originally posted by Merryprankster


If oil's the goal, why not Nigeria--easier sell, much more vested interest.

isnt nigeria run by muslems?...i know they still have slave trades going on over their.

don't worry MP once bush gets hold of iraq gets abit of calm going in the muslem nations nigerias next

[@PLUGO]

I just heard on the Radio that Jordan reported huge numbers of Iraqis who saught refuge from the 1st gulf war are returning to take up arms in defence of Iraq... weird weird weird

[Mr Punch]

I'm not sure I speak on behalf of the British servicemen and women out there, but I'm guessing that most of them would wish Shrub and his adviser the squid were over there with them to personally offer support.

However for anyone wishing to do so by email please follow this link.

[Souljah]

Can't say I definately agree with that.....

Saddam is an evil dictator yes, but what will follow saddam?
The proposed "union" of the three main groups in Iraq.....Who will probably never get along with eachother.....This plan of a coalition has never really worked when outside forces impose it.

So I dont neccassarily agree because I see alot more bloodshed to come if this plan goes ahead.

[dezhen2001]

souljah - agreed.

all the best intentions in the world wont help you control the country if you cant understand what caused the difference between sunni and shia. it happened in the first century after prophet Muhammed died so its been going on for a loooong time.

its the same as what happened in india under colonialism - oh lets take 2 different religious groups who have been warring for centuries and oppress them under a british regime. Look what happened?

dawood

[Souljah]

"Can't say I definately agree with that....."

Hey it was a quick post what can I say...

[dnc101]

Mat, thanks for the link. I sent a message, for what ever it's worth.

Black Jack, thanks for the thread. I already sent one to the US troops, a friend had e-mailed me the link.

Joe, got one for the Ausies? I'll be happy to go on record as thanking them directly as well.

[PaulH]

Saddam's Enforcers (CBS News)
NEW YORK, March 26, 2003


Mohammed Abdul Majid was a major in the Iraqi Army until he defected in 1991.


In the Middle East today – we’ve been asked not to say exactly where–Abdul Majid told how he helped set up the unit that eventually became the Fedayeen.“They use a lot of fear, and horror,” he says. “They scare the people. They are well trained. They are well trained in killing. I'm not sure if they are trained in battles, big battles--you know, like we train in the Army.”


They are, he says, trained for assassination. They are trained to kill opposition members. They are trained to scare people. Some of the Fedayeen, he says, were taken straight out of prisons to join the unit.


Mohammed Abdul Majeed told us he helped train a new elite military intelligence and special operations unit 13 years ago. It was modeled after the British SAS.


But when the unit came the attention of Saddam and his sons, they decided to turn it into their own private police force, their enforcers, the Fedayeen.


Their first job, three or four years ago, was to behead prostitutes and parade their remains in the streets of Baghdad and Basra. The public demonstration, Abdul Majeed says, was intended “to terrorize the people,” to tell them, “We are around you all the time. You can't even wink, you know? And this, this is fear.”


When they parade in Baghdad, the Fedayeen dress and strut like Ninja warriors. But in southern Iraq, they threw away these outfits to infiltrate the towns and cities, blending in with the population.


Former CIA analyst Dan Byman, currently a professor at Georgetown University, says there may be up to 50,000 Fedayeen.


“The Fedayeen are primarily comprised of, essentially, thugs drawn from the countryside who were recruited by Saddam's older son to join this unit,” Byman says, “acting as paramilitary forces to put down civilian revolts, not necessarily to fight large conventional battles.”


Their current civilian dress, Byman notes, also makes it easy for them to “strike more effectively as guerillas.”


They would regard the Geneva Convention as “a joke.” These rules of war, he says, “are something written by the strong. And these rules of war favor the United States, because they cannot compete on conventional combat, so therefore they should be disregarded because they won't work.”


In practice, says Mohammed Abdul Majid, the Fedayeen are “100 percent terrorists, as far as we Iraqis are concerned.”


With the start of the United States military action, they have blended in with other Iraqi militias and forces, fanning out all over Iraq. They are threatening to kill not only American soldiers but Iraqis, too.


There have been reports that Fadayeen are under orders to shoot any Iraqi soldier who threatens to surrender. Abdul Majid says they “will shoot soldiers, civilians, their own people, their own family members, in order to protect Saddam Hussein and his regime at the moment. Especially at this time.”


There are Fedayeen in Nasirayah, Abdul Majid says, and they are ready to kill anyone who tries to revolt against Saddam. The civilians, he says, “have nowhere to go to. They have to fight because there's somebody watching over them with a gun.”


They announced on an Al Jazeera broadcast, he says, "’We will kill the Americans, and kill everyone who would not kill Americans.’ And I thought, you know, that was a big message.”


In the desert sand storms outside Nasiriyah, the Fedayeen have disrupted the American battle plan and disoriented unit commanders like Colonel Curtis Potts from the Army’s Third Division. “The disturbing thing about these folks is their tactics,” Col. Potts says. “They are using Iraqi families as human shields, as you witnessed last night.”


He finds it hard to believe that the leader of a nation would do that to his people. “It angers me that this is what they have to do, but we’ll get through it,” Col. Potts says.


The Fedayeen surprised Col. Potts and other commanders by moving into southern Iraq. They were expected to stay in Baghdad to protect Saddam Hussein. Many of them come from Saddam’s own tribe. They are better paid than most regular soldiers, and they are fanatically loyal to the dictator and his sons.


There have been reports that Saddam trusts the Fadayin more than the Republican Guard.


Abdul Majid discounts that idea: “Saddam Hussein does not trust anyone. Saddam Hussein trusts only himself. But he always has units watching other units. You know, he has the Republican Guards. But he has the Special Republican Guards watching over the Republican Guards.”


Then he has the the Special Operators watching over the Special Republican Guards. And now, he has got the Fadayin Saddam watching over the Republican Guards and others.


This former Iraqi colonel suspects that Saddam–wherever he is now, and he is probably literally underground in a bunker—has ordered American POWs to be held close by. “Somewhere around--underneath the earth,” he says. “Ten stories underneath, probably, eight stories underneath. Somewhere around his headquarters. He'll keep them next to him.”


Much of the news coverage of the war so far overwhelmingly centers on the U.S. military engaging Republican Guard units, both regular Republican Guard and the so-called special Republican Guard. Is this a mistake? Should we refocus on the Fedayeen?


Former CIA analyst Daniel Byman says the Fedayeen “and, more broadly, other paramilitary forces, are probably the greatest long-term threat to coalition forces. The U.S. military and other coalition forces are exceptionally skilled at modern conventional war.”


But they are not as skilled, Byman says, in dealing with the Fedayeen. Their guerrilla tactics have already slowed down the American march on Baghdad.


Former Iraqi Army Colonel Abdul Majid thinks it would be a mistake to get sucked in by the Fedayeen. Keep moving, he says, don’t get distracted by the Fedayeen, keep moving to Baghdad.


If American military commanders were to ask him for advice on the best way to proceed from here, at the end of the first week, of the war, Abdul Majid would tell them this:


“Push towards Baghdad. Don't enter any cities. Just Baghdad. Go to the heart. Topple the regime. And then, the cities will definitely—once the regime is gone, the people will know that the regime is gone. I'm sure that the war will finish.”

[Stranger]

I don't want to get in an argument here because I love Australia and the people (even though this forum indicates they are not pleased with Americans), and I appreciate their aid as a comrade in EVERY war we have been in the 20th & 21st centuries (WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Afghanistan, Iraqi Freedom).



I don't know what channels you are watching, but I hear about the presence of Aussie forces regularly.

In regard to the Aussie forces particularly, I suspect any lack of coverage is more for operational security than an oversight or lack of appreciation.

Like I said, I don't want to get into an argument over this. I always feel better when the Aussie military is on our side.

[dnc101]

Paul H- outstanding posts! I said before this war started that we'd probably be hailed as liberators. Knowing what we did about Saddam, it didn't take any clarvoyance or even a lot of brains to see that. I also think, and sincerely hope, that the Iraqui people will flourish as a free people.

Cow, now don't choke on your cud- but you made some good points here. We didn't go in heavy handed and install a regime in Afganistan (not to be confused with our heavy hand in ousting the Taliban, which is still ongoing). I don't think we should, or will, in Iraq either. As I've said before, we'll see when it's over. And I think it will be good.

I'm really in a watch and wait, and hope for the best mode. I believe the war will progress well. But I hope that our, and our allies, casualties continue to be light. Saddam is a monster, and I expect that civilian and resistance fighters still under his control will take a heavy loss. But in terms of numbers, their losses now wil be less than in even a decade of his being in power. And in terms of freedom, no price can be put on that- even when paid in blood. The blood of courageous people has allways been the price of freedom, to earn it and maintain it. I have nothing but respect for the Allied forces and the Iraqui people who oppose Saddam. That includes a somewhat grudging respect for George Bush. I still have my problems with him, but he and Tony Blair have showed courage and leadership in their prosecution of this war. Just my opinion, as ever not humble in the least!

[Royal Dragon]

N. Korea's next.
Then France.

Reply]
We should do France first. All we have to do is call them, and they will surrender. They are easy, get them out of the way first I say.

[fa_jing]

Originally posted by Budokan

However, you're right that the people in the south and the north have a higher percentage of the population who wants us there. But then they also want to break away and form their own countries. And that ain't gonna happen because the other countries in the Middle East don't want Iraq carved up. Oh, and neither do we for that matter. Another Yugoslavia in the Middle East is one thing no one wants.

Actually, I believe that the problem with Yugoslavia was that it was not carved up, instead it was artificially created and sustained initially by outside forces, as was the case with the birth of Iraq. Again in both cases, it is groups of people with long standing feuds against one another, united artificially by a dictator (remember Tito?) The country should be allowed to disassociate, as did Yugoslavia, as a way of reducing the amount of tension. It isn't good to artificially unite opposing groups, especially since one always ends up on top to the exclusion of the others. I would think that other Middle Eastern governments are opposing this not for the sake of the people, but because they want to maintain complete control over their own lands, through force. I am always in favor of granting independance and secession to the people who desire it.

In other words, East Timor splits from Indonesia = good
Estonia, Latvia, Belarus etc. split from Russia/USSR = good
Kashmir splits from India = good (not that I support terrorism)
Yugoslavia disassociates = good
West Bank and Gaza split from Israel = good (not that I support terrorism or compromising Israel's security)
Kurdistan splits from Turkey and Iraq and ? = good
Quebec splits from Canada = if they desire, good
New York City splits from US = what me worry?