Wing Chun kicks

[yuanfen]

Chen Zen- wing chun has lots of kicks. Beginners generally dont know them- because developing a sound structure is important in wing chun.

Wing chun is not a fast food place.

[yuanfen]

Chen Zen- wing chun has lots of kicks. Beginners generally dont know them- because developing a sound structure is important in wing chun.

Wing chun is not a fast food place or a menu..

[[Censored]]

TKD is a powerful, ancient art, created to kick people off horses. It was a important component of the original, sweet Shaolin Wing Chun. However, this devastating spin-kick knowledge was suppressed by the evil Ching Dynasty, to prevent Shaolin from totally flipping out and killing everyone!

Yip Man rediscovered the 4th form of Wing Chun, that contains the real ultimate power of the spin-kick. But he only taught this form to his most favorite student: __???__.

[Chen Zen]

While i know that wing chun contains kicks are they not mostly below the belt? Kick for kick I think TKD has Wing Chun beat. TKD is known the world over to have the best kicking techniques.

[burnsypoo]

Originally posted by Chen Zen
While i know that wing chun contains kicks are they not mostly below the belt? Kick for kick I think TKD has Wing Chun beat. TKD is known the world over to have the best kicking techniques.

whatever best means. Better kicking techniques mean nothing without a good delivery system, and when you start to figure out a better delivery system (let's say.. WC) then you won't want to kick that much anymore.

[yuanfen]

We have a grappling mess going and I dont want to negin a kicking debate. But FWIW- TKD kicks are not better than wc kicks.
Your friend may not be advanced enough to show tem effectively.
But you are entitled to your opinion- Cheers.

[yuanfen]

We have a grappling mess going and I dont want to negin a kicking debate. But FWIW- TKD kicks are not better than wc kicks.
Your friend may not be advanced enough to show tem effectively.
But you are entitled to your opinion- Cheers.

BTW- Yip Man was known for his kicking ability- as he gew older- he kicked less- didnt have to...

[Chen Zen]

It is the opinion of the majority of the martial arts world that TKD has superior kicks to any style. Why should it not as this is its primary weapon? As for not kicking or kicking less well I want to use every weapon available. Why limit myself to just hand techniques? Thats like learning how to wrestle but never knowing how to do a headlock. It doesn't make sense. In a real situation any weapon you have is your best friend. If I can kick you in the face thats better for me. My legs are stronger than my arms, longer, and less likely to be damaged by the impact of attack. You see I have traveled all over the country just about and of all the friends I made who were trained the one who stood out the most and posed the biggest threat while sparring was My Wing Chun instructor. But like most people he has no real experience with kicks and the science involved and was therefore unprepared for an attack of this type. I am an exceptional kicker I think and I know I am well above the average kicking joe. But I attribute this to nothing more than an open mind about them and a willingness to practice them and try to perfect them. Due to that I can do things most guys cant, but I still think that the average joe could put these into use with the proper training.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Chen Zen
You say dont train both but you did.

Yes, I guess we've all done things in life that we regret later.

I understand thay they are two complete opposites but I dont think you could call either superior.

I can, and do. Note that I have said "based on my experience", I consider Wing Chun to be superior. If thought for one second that TKD was better, I would never have left.

They are both great and weak in there own rights.

I would say that as a system, TKD is weaker. Again it's one man's perspective. That's why I always say, your mileage may vary.

Also I do not mean any disrespect to your opinion I am just trying to give you another way to look.

Don't think that I don't sincerely appreciate that. Likewise, I mean no disrespect to you. The fact that you are learning Wing Chun from someone who has only two years of training makes me seriously question the quality of instruction that you are receiving. I think if you were to train with someone more qualified then you would see my point. Then again, maybe not.

Matrix

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Chen Zen
It is the opinion of the majority of the martial arts world that TKD has superior kicks to any style.

Really? Where is the data for this majority of martial arts? If they think this is so, then why don't they adopt those kicks within their own system?

Why limit myself to just hand techniques?

I don't believe that limitation was suggested that you "limit" yourself to hand techniques.

In a real situation any weapon you have is your best friend.

No, any weapon is any friend, the best weapon is your best friend.

If I can kick you in the face thats better for me.

Sure, and you may win the Lottery as well. Good luck.

My legs are stronger than my arms, longer, and less likely to be damaged by the impact of attack.

Yes, but in order to kick my head they have a much longer way to travel, and physical strength does not always translate into real power. If you miss, you will be hung out to dry, standing on one leg. If you hit me, it better be very good, because I'm coming in.

But like most people he has no real experience with kicks and the science involved and was therefore unprepared for an attack of this type.

I don't think that is true of most of the people around here. It is certainly not representitive of my experience.

I am an exceptional kicker I think and I know I am well above the average kicking joe. ........ Due to that I can do things most guys cant, but I still think that the average joe could put these into use with the proper training.

It's certainly a point of view that I don't share, with respect to the average joe. If you are "exceptional" then by definition most others will not be able to come up to your standard. Obviously, it's a free world, so I wish you the best on your journey. I just hope that you don't run into above-average joe or josephine.

Matrix

[Block]

I have to agree with Matrix here.

Chen Zen:
I have been training in WC for 3 years and although I teach beginners there is no way I think I'm qualified to teach people the WC art.

This is why I have doubts about you learning form an instructor who has only learnt WC for 2 years. IMO if he had learnt WC for 5-10 years he'd know that he wouldn't need to learn TKD.

As a side note my instructor has learnt Wing Chun for more than 40 years.

TKD is definitely a very good kicking art but there in lies the fundamental problem. Kicks will lose you the fight 9 times out of 10. Kicks, although strong, are easy to see and counter. The body movement need to execute a kick especially in TKD telegraphs the movement and it is at this point a good fighter counters.

I know you'll probably disagree with me on the previous point having had your own vast success with your kicks but given equal skill the non kicker usually wins.

Generally WC students don't learn kicking until their second or third year of training. Which is another reason for you instructors lack of ability to counter your kicking.

One of the main WC principles is safety. Which means that your own safety is paramount when executing a technique. When kicking above the waist you lose structure and leave yourself open for an easy counter attack, even if you are very fast.

This is why WC doesn't kick above the waist and generally doesn't kick unless they are in an advantageous position (usually having hold of the opponent). I can guarantee you that WC has incredibly powerful kicks. They may not look fancy like TKD kicks but taught and trained properly they are awesome.

Also WC kicks are known as shadowless kicks. This is to say that the kick is not telegraphed in anyway. When kicking, the upper body stays motionless. If this sounds a bit mystifying to you then I suggest you find a good Sifu who will show you what I mean.

TKD and WC are opposite in the way they teach you to fight. It may seem sensible to combine the two to get a great long range and short range fighting system but the truth is that it just wouldn't work.

If you are able to find a good sifu and can take the time to learn WC properly you will see what I mean. WC is an art of principles, as opposed to TKD which is a technique based art. You can't combine the two because most TKD techniques break WC principles.

I, like Matrix, have no doubt that you are a very good kicker but WC is an exceptional combat system and has numerous excellent defences against kicks.

[Wingman]

Originally posted by Chen Zen
While i know that wing chun contains kicks are they not mostly below the belt?

True. The target area for hand techniques are the head and the body; while the target area for kicks is the area below the belt.

Kick for kick I think TKD has Wing Chun beat.

If a WC guy fights a TKD guy using only kicks, then the TKD guy has the advantage. It would be foolish for the WC guy to play the TKD guy's game. He who plays his own game is most likely to be victorious.

TKD is known the world over to have the best kicking techniques.

It is a matter of opinion. Opinions vary from person to person.

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by Chen Zen
Kick for kick I think TKD has Wing Chun beat. TKD is known the world over to have the best kicking techniques.

Coca Cola is known for making the best cola. Does that mean Coca Cola is good for you?

TKD = Coca Cola
WC = water

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by Chen Zen
I am an exceptional kicker I think and I know I am well above the average kicking joe.

Most TKD-ers think this way....

[EvolvingPower]

I noticed an essential point that was only hinted at and not stressed.

TKD is a long range (kick range) art. The training emphasises this range. Not the close range... thus the much needed muay thai elbows and knees.

Wing Chun structure is exceptional at punching, trapping range and can kick at this range (for extra power) with the so called Shadow or Glass techniques (invisible, zero perception attacks). Also it stresses defense at the same time as offense which cannot be done with most TKD kicks.

Wing Chun also specialises in closing the gap immediately to close range where it's most effective. That is the main use of kicks in free sparring, to close the gap, inflict some damage and neutralize functional kicking ability. Now we're ready to punch, elbow, etc.

So there are te techniques and the tactics of each art to consider. Also the philosophy and training methods of each system.

If you want to kick butt, then train in TKD. If you want to destroy your opposition and while stressing your safety, train Wing Chun. LOL.

Seriously, what really matters is what every individual looks for in an individual martial art. If they get it, then keep training at it. If not, train something else. To me, Wing Chun is the superior art in training me in what I want. TKD training didn't cut it FOR ME. PERSONALLY.

If you want to know MY criteria for this desicion, just ask.

Yet before you ask me, write in a piede of paper why it is so to you. You'll appreciate your art much better.