ALL IRAQ topics here.

[MightyB]

Turkey doesn't have Iraq's potential for generating revenue. Turkey also associates itself more with Europe hence it's bid to get into the EU. Turkey isn't really embraced by the Arab world, they're considered their own thing.

Turkey also hasn't got the exposure that Iraq has. And yes, Iraq will be a successfull democracy. We did it with Japan, we can do it with Iraq. America is actually pretty good at nation building. We do carry some selfish motives, but, unlike the countries pushing for UN control, we don't steal. We're not going to put things in place that only allow us to benefit at the expense of the Iraqi people. The Iraqi people will be the biggest winners in the end.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by MightyB
And yes, Iraq will be a successfull democracy. We did it with Japan, we can do it with Iraq.

There are many Experts that disagree with your view.

Japan, Germany and Iraq are very different situations and you can't compare them.

Their societies & outlooks are completely different and also the world has changed in the last 50+yrs since WW II.

I wish the Iraqi's all the best, and hope that they will get the goverment that THEY want may it be democratic or not.

Cheers.

[joedoe]

LC beat me to it. You cannot say that because you did it in Japan you can do it in Iraq - two very different cultures.

Anyway, only time will tell.

[ZIM]

Good to see that the fight predicted was not as fierce as foreseen.

what concerns the thinking individuals among us is the thousands of civilian casualities

This was never my focus- instead, I'm concerned about the political dimensions in the US itself and the consequences that may attend that. Not that humanitarian, I guess...

I saw an Iraqi exile, fmr. head of the Nuclear program, talking on Charlie Rose. He was speculating that SH got out and that was why there was little resistance. His theory: if you examine the timing, the Russian convoy left at the same time as the resistance in Basra was reaching a peak, the defense of Baghdad was a cover for that retreat. So: the Russians MAY have him.

[dnc101]

It's been a while since I was here, and I said then "time will tell' in the war with Saddam. Well, so far we've seen:

Saddams' goons commit atrocity after atrocity, while coalition forces have went out of their way, even endangering themselves, to limmit casualties and dammage. So much for our 'evil' military.

We've found the torture chambers and prisons for children. We've heard the horror stories from Iraqui citizens. We've been cheered and hailed as liberators.

Oh yes, and we found weapons of mass destruction, some aboard long range missiles. We also found the terrorist training camps.

We did not get into a 'quagmire' or a 'blood bath', despite the hopes of the Democrats and other extreme liberals. Dang- three weeks and we all but own Iraq!

The 'Arab World' has not risen up against us. We havn't seen another 9-11. Terrorism has actually droped, as it allways does when confronted. Terrorism thrives on weakness, but pales to strength and resolve.

I havn't gone back and read the posts since I was last here. But I'd say a lot of you should be changing your tune about now- either to a less extremist stance or to making excuses and finding other ways to point out that the US is the source of all evil.

Well, the economy isn't ruined yet either, so I still have a lot to do here. Just took a moment to drop you all a little "I told you so". See you when I get the time and inclination.

[Chang Style Novice]

Just dropping in to say that I'm pleased as punch that my major fear about this war has been proved unfounded. As a military action, I can't see any way that it could reasonably have gone any smoother. We've won the war, which we always knew would happen at a much MUCH lower cost than I'd feared. I still wish that we hadn't gone in so alone, and I figure that the blame for that lies equally with the Bush administration's gung-ho attitude and the UN security councils shilly-shallying.

Now that the war is won, the more difficult task lies ahead - winning the peace. From what I know, we haven't done a fantastic job in Afghanistan of really working to establish a long-term, viable republican system of government; tribal leaders are stirring up trouble in different regions, including a rebanding Taliban. We've underfunded our foreign aid efforts to them (the Bushies didn't even propose any money in the budget for it! Congress had to do it for them.) It's not too late to correct our mistake there and prevent similar trouble in Iraq (where a lot of the same problems are liable to occur.) The last thing we want is another fundamental Islamofascist theocracy to appear right next door to Iran, or to set up an unpopular puppet gov't that will eventually provoke an Islamofascist revolution, like happened in Iran. By going in alone, we've made it appear that this is an imperialist invasion rather than an international peacekeeping effort. We have to make sure that doesn't appear true, and also that it isn't true.

My best wishes to the troops. I hope that the humanitarian crisis that threatens Iraq is not too severe, and is solved quickly. I wish everyone in Iraq to return home soon, whether home is the USA, Britain, or a newly free Iraq!

[Liokault]

Yet I sit here watching TV and see a young girl crying after she was shot in the head by a US marine and a man killed after he came out onto his balcony to see what was happening....killed by the same marines.

Reading the papers yesterday.

Saw pics of a young boy with both his arms blown off.
Pic of a young girl in bandages sitting in a pool of her mothers blood.
Pic of the looting that no one seems to want to do anything about


I imagine it depends how u define Blood bath guy

[Liokault]

LOL and in a lighter note I hope the muslim world is not going to rise up against westerners as i'm off to istanbull next week.

[ewallace]

There is no Iraqi Information Minister you infidel. The media has been lying to you. The media was never in Iraq. There is no Media. There is no Iraq. I invented the internet.

[Black Jack]

Laughing Cow- Of course, it was more of a remark on a very historic day, a day of reckoning for Saddam and his party, there is still a LONG way to go, but the troops and our adminstration, are doing a fantastic job and they should recieve due apologies from the now silent war critics, doomsayers, left-wing stoogies, pc clowns and hollywood sages.

But you KNOW that would be a cold day in hell even though all of them are eating their words.

The fact is that most of these people did not have a agenda against the war but against President Bush and his adminstration. Where were these loudmouths protesting Saddams torture rooms, childern prison camps, murder of muslims and kurds, the 12 years of dodging resolution 1441, and the internal support of terrorism, which Saddam (now believed dead) has been committing.

The answer. No where. They divide the world not between good and evil, but between rich and poor, black and white, chop it up into segments. They have a moral blindspot and IMHO their actions aid and comfort Saddam and his terrorist regime.

They supported a thug and picked the wrong side of history.

I say when it is all over the history books will show George Bush as the great president he is.

[Badger]

Along way to go but a darn good start.




Badger

[@PLUGO]

I say when it is all over the history books will show George Bush as the great president he is.

LMAO...that's funny...

The fact is that most of these people did not have a agenda against the war but against President Bush and his adminstration.

no clue where you got that "fact" barely interested in a source.

Civilian body counts:
MIN:
1140

MAX:
1376


US troops:
104 +/-

UK troops:
30 +/-

Iraqi Troops:
5300 +/-

[Felipe Bido]

Oh, yeah..I was waiting for this

[Black Jack]

It's based on actions.

Keep running all the numbers you want. Have fun. You guys could not of worked harder to be more wrong.

[@PLUGO]

you seem to have confused some of my posts for "actions" . . . okay.
but what you're proposing as "fact" reads much more like simple "observation" there's a difference.

You also seem to claim a monopoly on what's "right" . . . whatever...

you also seem to believe I find knowing the numbr of lives lots in this whole affair "fun"

dead wrong


talking in terms of "you guys" is ludicrus... but go right ahead, whatever's your pleasure.