Yup, more on this topic. LOL
I am just trying to piece things together. How many lineages have Ng Mui as the founder? So far I can find only three
Sum Nung
Yik Kam
Yip Man
These systems all seem to have certain things in common.
As I did some searching, I found more seem to link themselves to Gee Shim
Gee Shim Weng Chun
Hung Fa Yi
Chan Yiu Min (Chan Wah Shun lineage, which throws me for a loop)
Dai Fa Min Kam (Seems to be the source of Weng Chun)
Then there are two others that claim different lineage
Pan Nam- Yat Chum Um Jee, a female nun
Pao Fa Lien-Dai Dong Fung a male monk
It seems there are two groups. Wing Chun and Weng Chun. Wing Chun being linked to Ng Mui and Weng Chun being linked to Gee Shim. The more I think about all this, the more I think they really are two distinct styles that at some point have become intertwined. In the mix may very well be White Crane, Hung Kuen, other Hakka Arts, and maybe some taoist stuff from the white crane temple Ermie.
But there are some weird things. Most of the Weng Chun stuff includes Dai Fa Min Kam. Many of these style appear to be similar. However, Yuen Kay San claims him as their ancestor, but they are clearly difffernt to the other Dai Fa Min Kam people, and closer to the Ng Mui based Yip Man and Yik Kam families. Though Wong Wah Bo is linked to Yuen Kay San as well, and that is a stem for Yip Man style.
Then there is a Chan Wah Shun grand student claiming Weng Chun roots and Gee Shim. This is odd as most others claim Ng Mui from this branch. Perhaps confusion or adoption of Weng Chun history.
While looking at Roots of wing chun, I noticed another interesting point. Hung Fa Yi story stated that Hung Gun Biu swore to secrecy and developed the Ng Mui story as a cover. This is great except only Wong Wah Bo and Yik Kam seems to have kept that secret. Dai Fa Min Kam certainly did not as most of his lineage points to Gee Shim. The ties to Yip Man wing chun really amazes me with regards to HFY.
I am starting to rethink some things. Nothing earth shattering. I think I have heard much of this before in bits and pieces. Perhaps The Gee Shim person taught the people on the red boats a sort of martial art that is related to Hung Gar and Weng Chun. Explains the pole and many core movmemnts. Another group brought in something close to what is now known as Wing Chun. Some overlap occured and explains Wong Wah Bo and Leung Yee Tai. There is probably some white crane as well. Some suggest Ng Mui may have known white crane. Ng Mui was said to have lived in Szechuan where Ermei is, so perhaps that relates some how as well. The stories intermix as do some of the styles. Dai Fa Min Kam and Wong Wah Bo become the main two propigators of these two systems that are different, yet linked. Others continue to refine and polish, others continue to build. The systems take off.
Gee Shim continues on his way and Hung Gar us born before or after the red boats.
Not clear, but indeed interesting.
Tom
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