Aikido Effectiveness

[Samurai Jack]

Jkogas,

I've been in real fights wherein I kept my head and was able to deal with the situation using my traing. The "fog of war" as you put it is only a hinderance if you try to fight the adrenaline rush and freeze up. For me, punching and such are not "basic" responses to an attacker anyway. Grabbing my opponent and throwing/locking them is. Whose to say which approach is best? For me, grappling works better than boxing ever did, and Aikido teaches you to grapple in a free style manner. I like it.

[greendragon]

Psuedo, maybe try Hapkido as it is known as the more brutal cousin of Aikido but coming from the same roots.
J, Aikido is not complex, the details we learn are complex, but in dynamic application we just use the basic principles, those that SHOULD be common to all martial arts. and we do not block, we blend. The lightning fast boxer punch? make him reach for you and over extend, after all, are we talking about fighting or 'sparring', there is a difference.
I would also add that I have never heard of any spiritualism being part of Aikido training.

[StickyHands]

Well how about both, sparring or a competition in one of those UFC-like tournament against a fast striker or a real fight against a street thug who lets say did have good background in MA (but this guy doesn't care if he kills you, no rules). What would you say, is Aikido more effective to street defense or Aikijutsu? Since Ive read in many places, the common Aikido's mindset is to bring the opponet down without causing him too much injury, if none at all (which might be why it's so complex). Where as Aiki-jutsu, precursor to Aikido, is quite aggressive (direct and easier to execute), and is not prone to care what happens to the opponent, as long as he's down. Having said that, when you're defending against multiple opponets, would u care not to harm them like Aikidoka, or would u care to break their bones so they dont get up again and attack you all at once?

[Becca]

Originally posted by pseudoswitch
I'm not aware of any daito ryu aiki jujutsu schools in the UK at all. My understanding is that they are mostly in Japan, with a few others worldwide. If you know of any in the UK please let me know

It might be easier if you were to search out an idividual instructor. IMHO the best ones don't always affiliate with large schools. They tend to take a handfull (less than 10) of students on at one time, then keep them together in a "core" group. It doesn't matter if one or two are spooky good or one is way slower in learning, they all learn the same thing at once. Then the master will cycle through again and again untill they all have the physical aspects. The spiritual is worked in as part of the kata, if the instructor chooses to include it. Many don't, and most of the ones I know of don't put much enfesis on it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Samuri Jack

I would say that your observations concerning Ki Aikido would be dead on, but over here in California, Oregon and Washington, Aikikai is considered the rabid wolf among Aikido circles...
It is not a rabid wolf!

[Samurai Jack]

What? You don't like my metaphore? Too violent? Personally I like the image of a rabid wolf...

Or did you take exception to my comment because you disagree that aikido is effective as self defense?

Anyway, what I meant was that the Aikikai organization here on the west coast is known to carry a self defense, rather than spiritual foo-foo mind set into it's training philosophy.

Either way your entitled to your opinion. Let's say that the west coast Aikikai is known as the kick a$$ godzilla in a world full of cardboard Tokyo's then. That's my opinion.

[Becca]

Ooops!
Sorry, thought you were dissing it. I agree, it is more of a self defence style. My instructor touched on the spirituality side, but it came across to me like he didn't have much use for it. Probably why he broke off from the main stream and changed the name to Ninjitsu Kai.

[KKD]

I've been studying Ba-gua for many a years now (23) and all I've got to say is my teacher has said that Aikido was Aiki-Jutsu that O-Sensei combined with Ba-gua footwork from when he was in China. Remember, he couldn't say that the 'circle dancing' he witnessed, helped him develop his system, now could he?

As for the Ki style of Aikido, I've heard it that O-Sensei developed one system, but as his meditations and techniques taught him to be more internalized (smaller movements - until almost invisible) his system changed with him. So the later 'teachings' were more along the lines of internalized movements and more in tune with the 'peace' aspects.

This has happened to alot of systems (Wing-chun even - Look at traditional Wing chun and Wing Tsun... Very similar, but a slightly different emphasis, DEPENDING ON THE SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT of the master at the time of teaching).

As for the ba-gua link, it is most definitely there, since my boss started Aikido about 2 years ago, and almost ALL his basic footwork is right out of the ba-gua system.

My .02....

[Samurai Jack]

Yes, I've heard this argument before, and also have seen zero facts to back it up. Not that there's anything wrong with an Aikido/Ba gua connection, I just don't think it's probable.

The Jodo and iaido I've seen both use the same footwork as Aikido. I hear that Yarijutsu (japanese spearmanship) also features a toe out style of footwork. Are we meant to believe that they are also based on Ba Gua?

O-Sensei always told his students that Aikido came from Daito Ryu Aikijutsu, kenjutsu, and yarijutsu. Being that these styles all share similar features, why do we need to make assumptions about Aikido's origins?

Maybe people think linking Ba Gua with Aikido validates a style that the American public may be unfamiliar with. In that case, better to say that karate or western boxing comes from Ba Gua!

[Ultimatewingchun]

Samurai Jack:

Much earlier on this thread you mentioned what happened when you attacked your much older aikido instructor with all of your boxing, wrestling, and karate skills - he just trounced you....

My question is whether or not you attacked with all out PENETRATION type moves or were you more cautious in the use of your energy, motion, balance, etc...(ie.- did you throw all out haymakers, all out lungesin an attempt to grab and take down, all out high speed kicks... or what?).

[Samurai Jack]

We played around for a bit. I was most impressed when I threw a feint to his face in the form of a jab. Before I had a chance to blink, much less throw a right cross, my face was being ground into the mat and my arm was twisted behind my back in a move I now know to be Nikyo. It hurt and I was surprised since my jab is the fastest and least committed punch I can throw. I thought, "What if this mat had been concrete?". I was hooked. I also stopped messing with Sensei!

[Samurai Jack]

Sifu, I re-read your post and realize that I may not have answered your question. I did not throw any hay makers, and I'm not a kicker...

I cringe to think what would've happened to me if I did. You see, in aikido, we LIKE for our opponent to over commit to an attack, hell we LIKE it in boxing too! A haymaker tends to be pretty slow for most fighters, which is why we like to set-up such powerfull movements with quicker ones like jabs, crosses and hooks.

My old coach used to yell at us when we did that kind of thing. It's just not good boxing, and only works as an opening move against an inexperienced/drunk/blind fighter.

[shaun]

hey guys, i used to take aikido for awhile, but then i stopped because i thought it was impractical.

from my point of view, aikido is very god against non trained people, who strike with their whole bodyweight. if you notice from the stevan seagal clip at the start of this thread, all the attackers appear to be running and attacking into seagal.

however, i am wondering as to whether it is effective against trained martial artists who strike with hip and arm, and not run into the guy. because i belive that aikido is very dependent on the guys momentum due to body weight.

do you guys agree or disagree?

i would really enjoy comments on its effectiveness on trained martial artists..

thanks
shaun

[Becca]

however, i am wondering as to whether it is effective against trained martial artists who strike with hip and arm, and not run into the guy. because i belive that aikido is very dependent on the guys momentum due to body weight.

It's very effective if you train in it utill you are very fluid. Striking with the "hip and arm" is momentum. And Aikido does work better with lots of it, but only if you are prepared to use it. It can be very... hard... on your opponant's body, and you can't half-a$$ it. You can't pull a technique. Once you commit to it, you must go through with it, even if it means dislocating something.

[xinyiliuhe]

Hi,

Does anyone know of any Aikido or Japanese Martial Arts teachers of any worth that live in Taiwan?

thanks,

Hussein

--
Ustaz Al-Mubarazaad
Silat Mubai and Silat Zulfikari
www.mubai.cc

[sweaty_dog]

Aikido is very effective if you are good at it. It is probably one of the most underrated styles for defending against weapons (I think so, anyway). Unfortunately not many people are good at it.