silly quad city message board...

[LaterthanNever]

Ive met Ken Gulette and I say say the following: One of his former students confided in me that he studied "internal arts" for a grand total of 3 years. Ive been to his school and he claims to "teach" Tai Chi, Hsing-I, and Pa qua. Anyone who has ever studied ANY of these three arts individually or collectively will tell you that there is no way to become proficient in all three styles in a matter of three years. Oh and Ken? For the billionth time..if you have not been paying attention?? Kung Fu(REAL kung fu) does not and HAS not ever used a belt system. Secondly(for the other readers of my post as well as Ken), Kens logic goes something like thissince we have been touching upon Physics). If certain things in physics are impossible such as two masses occupying he same space, then gravity which is a well established principle of physics is ALSO false. It doesn't matter becacuse he will just shut his ears and mindlessly chant his dogma of "ALL" chi is false. Well Ken, noone is disputing that vaporizing at will or walking thru steel walls is false, but chi is related to Blood flow..no blood flow, no life son. No chi? No life. Secondy, you know very little about the scientific method. Science does NOT seek to prove ANYTHING! Science seeks to DISPROVE by eliminating error. Secondly, while a certian aspect of your logic is correct(moving people from a mile away with your mind being false)..the way you go about the REST of your conclusion(ie: ALL chi being false) is very weak. Please for the sake of your own credibility..go to a sifu such as Dr. Yang Jwing Ming(who has probably been studying and teaching Tai Chi as long as you have been past your prepubescent teen years) and introduce yourself and say "All Chi is false" and listen to what he has to say. He'll laugh at you!

[Laughing Cow]

Ken.

You say Chi is false and does not exist.

I doubt that you ever properly studied either qi-gong nor spend a reasonable amount of time doing Zhang Zhuang.

Cheers,

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by LaterthanNever
Ive met Ken Gulette and I say say the following: One of his former students confided in me that he studied "internal arts" for a grand total of 3 years. Ive been to his school and he claims to "teach" Tai Chi, Hsing-I, and Pa qua.

3yrs in my school you are most likely to still be training our 1st Road.
And that is in 1 style only.

Cheers.

[ZIM]

I used blunt wording regarding "chi" as in Traditional Chinese Medicine (and the ideas some people have of its use in martial arts) in order to rock the boat and get people to think in scientific terms rather than emotional terms.

Getting away from emotional terms is ok, but TCM without chi is not, and can never be, Traditional or even Chinese. If you don't want to study it, then don't. All I see is straw men and spotlight grabbing, so far.

WRT which art? It was said Ken studies under Phil Starr... what is that? Yiliquan?

Cagey_vet: What's up in kung fu land, in your opinion? Do you really think it will have much impact?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Could it be fair to simply concede that Chi is energy.. in that context everyone wins.. Whether it be the energy that powers movement and alignment to such precision that the short concentrated bursts of energy (Chi) snapping the alignment into place and supercharging the muscles to fire so quickly and powerfully that the perceived result is "explosive power", or.. whether it is the more subtle connection to ALL things (again conceding that energy exists in (is) all things), the connection that permits thoughts (intents) to lead energy (Chi) through the well trained physical apparatus (muscle and bone) as it animates our movement of martial intent..

Here, we can look to physics for comfort in the emerging research of consciousness (thought/belief) and its direct effects on energy at the sub-atomic level.. it is in no way unlikely that we do not exchange "energies" with other beings, rather, it is most likely that we are interacting with our brothers and sisters on many levels outside the confines of the fleshy aspect of our existence.. further, it is not unlikely that someone someday will harness these subtle interactions through simple understanding and dedicated training, resulting in something akin to "Chi Blasts".. it's not impossible, and don't let those that can't accept the possibility disuade you from furthering your own experience.. There are those that would even extinguish the possibility, in favor of the security of their belief system.. (like warring religions).. You see, some people don't trust their own experiences, they need to be accepted by others so they submit proofs of measurements and academic models for the approval of others, denying their own sense of possibility in favor of the current structure of logic and reason..

Measure or quantify love, fear or compassion.. of course you can quantify the effect of love, etc.. but, there is a connection across time and space between two people that causes the effects.. the cause remains elusive to the measurement, but can we deny its existence.. On these matters such as Chi, whenever a "scientist" approaches the issue believing that it is invalid, the experience/observation is prejudiced and biased.. Further, it is lunacy to assume that our current technology and limited physical senses can report the complete experience of "being".. To deny thousands of years of experience and reporting of Chi and its effects on the basis non-verifiability is like the Ostrich sticking its head in the sand..

Aside from all that, Chi can live in both camps and keep its respect.. it is simply energy, energy that is utilized according to the beliefs of its "Being"... Heck, science can't define gravity, electricity, dark matter/energy, and quite a few other things it knows exists.. why all the fuss over Chi.. i find it odd that i can leave open the option for Chi (and that includes its non-existence as well), conceding we don't know it ALL yet.. while some others would simply determine the "correct" system and explain it to the rest of us..

Anyhow, thats my $0.02, no big deal.. Be well..

[ZIM]

Well, science, what the hey...

one link

two link

[red link, blue link...]

Hey, TCB- look at those, maybe you'll like 'em. Any thoughts appreciated.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Thanks for the links.. i think that points-out quite nicely how science and metaphysics are merging.. the links provide a window into the subtle nuances of energies and their relationships to our physical aspects.. although we can't yet measure or define the potential of the phenomenon observed in those links, we can easily see the potential for energy work at levels and modalities previously scoffed at by the logic and reason purists, even though the evidence is right under their noses (pun from link one).. The "force-field wall" in link 2 is particularly interesting.. Perhaps experiments and results like these will incite (insight ) science to begin to consider the long histories of casual observations that have matured into workable systems of healthcare (ie: TCM, QiGong, etc..) as worthy of sincere investigation and funding.. not to mention so much other possibility from other belief systems..

I have no quarrel with science, only the blinders it wears.. Someday i sense that science and metaphysics will merge to the benefit of mankind.. they are just differing paths to the same goal, understanding..

Be well..

[ZIM]

Actually, I think that the apparatus in link 2 is nice... I'm kinda thinkking about building one just to play with. Possible experiments: untrained in qiqong versus trained- any difference? After intercourse: any difference? Focused or scattered yi: any difference? etc. Haven't decided anything yet...

...but you'll notice that Mr. "Amazing" would never use something rational like that as a test, nope....

[jun_erh]

the qigong establishment