Wing Chun - The smart person's art?

[Phenix]

So Shao Lin Chan is run by Japanese Shin Sect? Paramahansa Yogananda, or Daoist ? wu wei =yin=empty?


"They don't understand a thing?"...Who are they? So, a thing, did "Your thing" give you that power to attack the others in public? ----RH

If one has a PHD one has one. If one don't just admit it. That simple right?




"The man of highest power does not reveal himself as a possessor of power; Therefore he keeps his power. The man of inferior power cannot rid it of the appearance of power; Therefore he is in truth without power."--Lao Tzu "----RH

Great advise. Isn't you are the one who post don't need sutras.... why do you qoute?
Please show us how it was practiced in the daily life.
First by not attacking the messenger...?

But, all the King and emperor of China up to Mr. President of USA did show thier power right?. Hmmm, so is your qoute just a "nice" to be philosophy or reality?




....trying to claim as an expert of Chan"...Who's this expert of Ch'an? So far, we've seen only you trying to act like one. Have you expanded the circle of your words the past year? -RH


Wow. you sure love to accuse.
Have you really do Chan and WCK? Just curious.


Well, ok, good luck and you walk your path and "I" walk mine. Have a happy journey. Signing off now.

[Tom Kagan]

"Basic ground-fighting techniques build a fundamental understanding of dominant body position, which should be the focus of most combatives training before moving on to the more difficult standing techniques. Ground fighting is also where technique can most easily be used to overcome size and strength." -- US Army field manual 3-25.150, Chapter 3.

... was referring to your beef with my Sigung, and I would apprecicate it if you would leave him out of your discussion with me. He has nothing to do with our discussion

What makes you think I have a 'beef" with your SiGung? If I did, would I:

• Be a member of the museum?
• Donate what could be considered a lot of money?
• Discuss a few ideas I had with the Asia Society & Metropolitan Museum of Art when your SiGung told me about his monetary problems?
• Respond to Jeremy's private email just as your SiGung had asked me to?
• Continue to take your SiGung's phone calls and relay messages to people on his behalf for, whatever reason, your SiGung feels he cannot just speak to directly?
• Give up my seat to your SiGung at the Opening of the Ip Man Tong?
• Send LaiSi back with one of your SiHings to present to your SiFu?

I freely admit I don't know the Hung Fa Yi method of studying the Ving Tsun Style. I freely admit I study a style of art - by your definition of a style, does that mean there's a 250 some-odd year old nun running around somewhere? And when did I even claim to understand my SiHing?? What I did was point out that understanding the people involved is more important, and give my reasons for stating it.

What I did was point out that your almost verbatim repetition of words on which your SiFu and SiGung put their name has no current way of proving or disproving that you are also, in actuality, not studying anything other than what you define as a style. There is no proof. Proof is in the results. History tends to be rewritten in the language of the victors and is never kept a secret.

The U.S. Military has 200 years of extensive documentation, analysis, and reanalysis on all levels of combat: stress, weapons (from fingers, toes, swords & firearms to artilery and psych-ops), demolition, construction, injury, logistics, law, survival, evasion, escape, cartography, and far more (even cooking - an army travels on its stomach!) - all, for the most part, freely available to its members and a huge portion fully declassified. If you want to limit the information to just the parts regarding one-on-one, hand-to-hand combat (a tiny portion of combat, armed or unarmed), there is still an incredible armout of information available. Tell me, do you study how to stalk and remove a sentry and the different ways to silently immobilize him based on whether you have a stick, knife, or nothing and whether the chinstrap to the sentry's helmet is fastened or not? The "why" of these things quickly become obvious to the lowly enlistee chanting a cadence without "the equivalent of a master's degree."

Unless your "military version" covers all these areas and another 10,000 books or so, you are not applying "a scientific approach to combat." You're either pretending (my "toys" reference), researching a minor Ving Tsun historical footnote (the claimed objective of the museum), or, if you are trying to study and implement them, actually trying to raise an army (a whole other level of eerie behavior from non-military personnel).

Since Wong Shueng Lueng and Bruce Lee did not walk into a MoKwoon 3/4 miles northwest of where they actually did, no other branches of your "System" are willing to step forward into the light of public scutiny to show that your definition of "style versas system" which is not based on personal preferences has any basis in reality. Since that is only happening now, as I said, only time will tell.

Thus, my observations have nothing whatsoever to do with any methods you study. The fact that you seemingly get upset (your: "Wrong Wrong Wrong" and immediate assumption I have a beef or feel threatened) when I point it out and, in the past, have received private emails and phone calls from others (never from San Fransisco) whenever I do point out things along the lines of this nature is, however, proof that understanding the people involved is more important than any method, scientific or otherwise, of studying an art when it comes to what should be rational discourse on an open forum.

By the way, unless it's in the wash or in the closet, how is is possible for my skirt to ever not show?

[Geezer]

Tom Kagan Wrote>

when I point it out and, in the past, have received private emails and phone calls from others

If it's "Private", why are you telling us you had "Private" coversations , are you in some way telling us you're good at keeping secrets????

Sheldon

[Tom Kagan]

If it's "Private", why are you telling us you had "Private" coversations , are you in some way telling us you're good at keeping secrets????

Private is private. Secret is something else entirely. I didn't call them "conversations" either - mostly I just consider it passionate nonsense from kids with strong beliefs. In a perverse sort of way, I admire it. Still, what I do with what I've been sent is, entirely up to me.

[Geezer]

Tom Kagan Wrote>

Private is private. Secret is something else entirely.

Cambridge Dictionaries Wrote>

private (PERSONAL) adjective
describes thoughts and opinions which are secret and which you do not discuss with other people

Cambridge Dictionaries Wrote>

secret noun ]
a piece of information that is only known by one person or a few people and should not be told to others

Tom Kagan Wrote>

I didn't call them "conversations" either

Cambridge Dictionaries Wrote>

conversation noun talk between two or more people in which thoughts, feelings and ideas are expressed, questions are asked and answered, or news and information are exchanged

Amazing,......how wonderful answer machines really are!!!!!??????

Tom Kagan Wrote>

mostly I just consider it passionate nonsense from kids with strong beliefs. In a perverse sort of way, I admire it.

And so you should.........if you know what I mean???!!!!!

Sheldon

[burnsypoo]

lame (NOT SATISFACTORY) adjective
(especially of an excuse or argument) weak and unsatisfactory

[Rolling_Hand]

<<So Shao Lin Chan is run by Japanese Shin Sect? Paramahansa Yogananda, or Daoist ? wu wei =yin=empty? >>HS

--Whenever Hendrik talks about things, it's like Mike tyson singing I love Don King, it has a sense of a la Hendrik.--RH

<<If one has a PHD one has one. If one don't just admit it. That simple right?>>HS

--Are you still playing your silly game with a three year old? Of course, his mom is a woman.... don't you know "a better act" than this?--RH

<<Great advise. Isn't you are the one who post don't need sutras.... why do you qoute?
Please show us how it was practiced in the daily life.
First by not attacking the messenger...?>>HS

--Ok, an act of love or giving is the single most powerful act in practicing the daily life. There is no mystery about why this should be so. Write a love letter to the place where Tao lives. Sing its praises in specifics.--RH

<<But, all the King and emperor of China up to Mr. President of USA did show thier power right?. Hmmm, so is your qoute just a "nice" to be philosophy or reality?>>HS

--Are you a slow learner? Don't you know that Saddom Hussen is no longer in power? Hmmm, please don't spend too much time doing your gong show, and go to get yourself a copy of the Time.--RH

<<Wow. you sure love to accuse.
Have you really do Chan and WCK? Just curious.>>HS

--You have not got out of the habit of your routine;I like pickles, I hate carrots.--RH

<<Well, ok, good luck and you walk your path and "I" walk mine. Have a happy journey. Signing off now.>>HS

--Well, it's not about good luck....it's about knowing yourself. Have a little idea!--RH

[mun hung]

Been too busy lately to visit the forum. I'm not surprised at where the conversations gone.

Ask a simple question.....

[Rolling_Hand]

<<The same old group on this list rather than sensibly discussing the differences basically end up focussing on the person of hendrik- specially so in RH's posts.>>Yuanfen

--A buddist hopes to see people as they really are in themselves, not as they might appear to be, filltered through his or her own prejudiuce and needs. Nature gave men two ends --one to sit on and one to think with...this is known as the way of the Tao--RH


<<Every living being has buddha nature thus capable to become buddha. As for Chan, one has to learn from a Teacher and get certified. Otherwise, it is heretic as written in the sutra.>>HS

--Wisdom comes with seeing all things as interconnected and having a reality and value that arises in spite of their temporary nature. In Tao, you may have received numerous teaching on how to rest in the sutra. Arrogance comes from hanging on the reference point of me and other. Then, you are missing the point, "Ch'an".--RH

[Universal Stance]

Hi mun hung,

In an attempt to bring it back to the original topic, my answer is in line with kj's original post.

Less intelligent people just do it...
More intelligent people just think about doing it...

I'm more intelligent and can confess, I spent way too much time trying to think of ways to train less while gaining more. If I used that time actually practicing, I would have been a Master (not just a Sifu) in my art. Smarter people tend to grasp the concepts quicker but run risk in questioning them more...guilty again.

Starting a new, less thought-provoking regiment as we speak...

Hope I start a trend by sticking to the topic....

[yuanfen]

A caveat on "intelligence"....its a dangerous turf. There are different kinds of intelligence... not all can be measured by IQ testing and formal degrees. In a gumpish way- intelligence is as intelligence does.
OTOH-
practice without some thinking can result in bad habits
and thinking ( and talking) without practice is likely to be dead wing chun.

[old jong]

I can tell you that my students who are making the best progress are the ones who practice the more and talk the less.
They most of the times take more advantages of the questions asked by the more talking ones.

[Universal Stance]

Actually IQ is relative to common sense and formal degrees to proficency in a specific subject. My reference is towards the level of contemplation a person uses on a given matter before he/she begins, if at all, to test the validity and effectiveness/defectiveness of what is being taught.

To tie this into what I am saying, once taught something I would contemplate on what was learned for a while, examining why I was taught that way, and test whether it was worth remembering beyond testing.

I may thoroughly understand the concepts, but the guy down the street who just did it got a whole lot more practice in than me. Guess that's why I suck...I blame the Aliens from planet KICS (Keep it Complicated Stupid)

[Sandman2[Wing Chun]]

Originally posted by yuanfen
A caveat on "intelligence"....its a dangerous turf. There are different kinds of intelligence... not all can be measured by IQ testing and formal degrees.

For any who are interested, here's my favorite book on this subject:

The Mismeasure of Man by Stephen J. Gould

[yuanfen]

The late Stephen Gould was a good man.

Ip Man was a martial art genius.