Suplementing Tai ji

[Repulsive Monkey]

Have I missed something here???? Why do you need to suplement your Taiji? Are you not being tught good quality Taiji or something????

If you are then theres no need what so ever to Supplement it, it will be complete.

[bodhitree]

Personally I don't see anything wrong with practicing an internal and external style.

[liangZhiCheng]

Mate I think we're talking about the same thing here! But I think that discussions like these are excellent, because they make you reconsider your ideas.

I agree, discussions like these are great, especially when there are no egos involved

I think strength is a factor in the amount of force you can generate.
When you're issuing a force, IMO it will be generated and issued more effectively through a body that is robust and strong, in addition to having the correct body mechanics. That is not to say though, that the strength in that body should be used inappropriately, in a stiff and uncontrolled manner.

I am just saying that, somebody trying to damage/throw/push an opponent with alignment, position etc. will not be as effective as somebody with the same body mechanics but also some physical presence and able to put some oomph! into it.

I can see what you're saying, and frankly I'm not sure. Let me bring up a few things, however. First of all, I've read/been told that in Tai Chi, you become so soft that you are extrememly hard, but on the inside. Secondly, I remember reading a quote from a Tai Chi master (unfortunately I do not remember the book or master that said it). It went something like this "Give me a 20lb weight, and I am unable to lift it/throw it far, give me a 200lb man, and I will throw him 20 feet." This implies to me that the master's skill does not come from physical strength. Another example I read involved the Golden C0ck posture. The author was practicing in a park. An old man watched him and asked him to stand in the Golden C0ck posture for five minutes. Afterwards, he felt his leg and said he was too wooden. The old man then proceeded to stand in the posture for five minutes, and asked the author to feel his legs. The author said his legs felt like cotton. This relates to the saying that after practicing Tai Chi for a long time, your body becomes like cotton-wrapped iron, soft on the outside, hard on the inside. Lastly, in Tai Chi, we "borrow" from the other person's strength.

Surely the stronger the legs, the more effective the motion? It doesn't matter how well aligned and relaxed the person is, if their legs are like wet noodles they are not going to have much effect. Surely that's just logical?

Perhaps, but I think that learning Tai Chi means thinking differently. Could you be right? Yup. Could you be wrong? Yup. (Same applies for me)

Ok, strength. As I see it, Tai Chi can build strength. By practicing, we will strengthen the muscles that are underdeveloped, and for many people, this includes the legs, and especially the hips. I think that zhan zhuang eventually helps us to learn how to use our muscles without tension, and to use the minimum amount of energy necessary to hold the position. What we get from practice depends on what stage we're in. Frankly, I'm still building strength all over my body. However, at the same time, I'm beginning to learn how to relax the body and trying to use minimal physical strength. However, I can see your point that if skill was equal, size and strength will win the battle. Whether I believe that is true is still to be determined

Thank you for this excellent discussion

[greendragon]

Yes to Aikido ! It has the same principles as TaiChi thus will augment your training. Shaolin has, at it's basic levels, the opposite in principles which may confuse you. I usually recommend shaolin to the young to start but if you are on the TaiChi path that is fine. Aikido will improve your progress and TCC will help you "get" the Aikido principles. Also Aikido should have a little hardness within it, you will learn strikes (atemi) but will use them as more of a distraction. Grappling arts have a large place in MA as the crux of a conflict is in the closed distance range. I speak from experience as i have become proficient in all 3 of these arts. The Shaolin i no longer need. The other 2 are usefull throughout life. I see TaiChi and Aikido being learned together more and more these days. Someday, far in the future, a new style combining them will emerge.

[Lin-Wu]

So,you would recomend studying these 2 MAs both in the beggining as I am,or would you recomend waiting until I have mastered the basics of tai ji?

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by Lin-Wu
So,you would recomend studying these 2 MAs both in the beggining as I am,or would you recomend waiting until I have mastered the basics of tai ji?

Sorry, not greendragon.

I would reckon wait 2~3 yrs before you start another art or atleast long enough till you got the first from down well in case it is a long form.

[Lin-Wu]

Thank you for the suggestions,everyone!!!You were very understanding with me,and I thank you for that,too!!See you when I have more questions,or when I can help you out with some opinions or suggestions of mine(yea,right )
No more doubts about that,thanks to you all,and untill the next post or thread!

[Repulsive Monkey]

You've got to be joking about a new art emerging more on the future of mixing Aikido and Taiji together surely????

There will never ever be a need to as they are both complete arts.
Or hasn't your proficiency in all these 3 arts taught you that yet???

Taiji doesn't need anything that Aikido has in it, although Aikido could do with being even more internal than it is. As far as internal martial arts Aikido is as much internal as Xing-I.
There are a lot of differences between Aikido and Taiji you know, there are not that mutually as embracing as you think!

But there will never be a need to mix thr two together, or if you do at most you weill only dilute the arts.

[jun_erh]

Alot of the guys in "Chinese Boxing: masters and methods" (my bible) new some internal and external. Like the first guy Hung taught him a couple shaolin forms as well as internals. there's a beauty to someone like Chenmanching knowing just one style through and through, but most other masters I'm sure know a lot of styles to some extent

[8gates]

Hi! I'm new on this fourm.
I study the Yang Short Form, plus 13 Original Form.
I have been studying Aikido, for the past weeks, and there are
a lot of things in common between Tai Chi and Aikido.
I do not need Aikido as a additive for my Tai Chi, I had the
chance to study it, and I am glad that I did. I can compare movement of Aikido to Tai Chi. I find myself get a better understanding of movement.. (If I do this in Aikido, I would handle it this way in Yang Tai, and vice-versa)
I do not believe that I should make a "new form" out of this, However I do have to say, that I am really glad that I started Aikido.


I say go for it Lin-Wu.
Just my 2 Cents.