Ross vs. Abel

[lkfmdc]

Calling those kicks Taekwondo kicks shows an amazing lack of education regarding martial arts and fighting.... simply amazing, I can't even begin to express to you how dumb it makes him look, I guess some get it, others don't

But for example, look at last weekend's K-1, the #1 FULL CONTACT kickboxing event in the world....

http://message.axkickboxing.com/imag...lho%20leko.jpg

http://message.axkickboxing.com/imag...emy%20kick.jpg

http://message.axkickboxing.com/imag...rling/mike.jpg

http://message.axkickboxing.com/imag...1065897373.jpg

According to Royal Dragon, all these guys are doing weak TKD kicks and he'd simply step in and cross them. I'd love to see him do it, heck, he'd collect quite a check doing it...

I suppose I could dig up pics of me over the years, scan them, and prove a lot here wrong... maybe when I have some spare time

[Shaolin-Do]

http://message.axkickboxing.com/ima.../1065897373.jpg
Poor example

Just cause other people are doing it doesnt make it right. Most those pics look like the fighters do it because they are off balance a little bit. That and most likely thats how they have always trained the kicks.
If everyone jumped off a cliff would you?

The picture above... Homeboy is looking straight at the dudes feet and leaving his face open.
Yes I do realize that the other dude most likely is getting swept... Id need to see the fight...

[Shaolin-Do]

http://message.axkickboxing.com/ima.../1065897373.jpg

Just cause other people are doing it doesnt make it right. Most those pics look like the fighters do it because they are off balance a little bit. That and most likely thats how they have always trained the kicks.
If everyone jumped off a cliff would you?

The picture above... Homeboy is looking straight at the dudes feet and leaving his face open.
Yes I do realize that the other dude most likely is getting swept... Id need to see the fight...

[lkfmdc]

- "Most those pics look like the fighters do it because they are off balance a little bit."

uh, NO, really, the things people say here are ASTOUNDINGLY ABSURD, and you wonder why people laugh at "kung fu guys" all the time?

The Muay Thai guys are looking at this thread and laughing their arses off right now at you guys.....

[Ralphie]

I have disagreed with IKF...'s delivery here, but he is right about a lot of things, and those kicks being one of them. If you fight toe to toe (like a Thai boxer) you will get hurt by one of those type of kicks. Look at the delivery, including angles, distance, etc. and it is easy to see that the only vulnerable one is the one being kicked. You can jam that kick, but not if you are on your heels, or worried about other strikes. It is also hard to hit the kicker because of his distance away, and rounded angles (chin tucked, shoulders rounded, minimal aspect). I don't and wouldn't fight a Thai/KB/SS guy on these grounds, it is not my method. I would apply my strategy to take away his ability to kick and punch within his comfort zone, then attack.

RD, I can appreciate your passion for CMA. However, you sound foolish a lot of the time.

[ShifuBinks]

Here are my thoughts on this kicking issue, I might be wrong:

Fights are pretty unpredictable, many things are possible, and people can get hit while throwing the round kick (see Pedro Rizzo vs. Gan McGee or Ivan Salaverry vs. Andrei Semenov). But it is a lot easier said than done.

Now having said that I think it is unfair to make any major judgements on someone's fighting ability based on how they hold their hands when they kick.

People on here have already explained how their is nothing wrong with Ross' form, but lets give the naysayers the benefit of the doubt and assume Ross' hands are in the wrong place. If you are going to make a big deal out of this, it suggests to me that you haven't done much fighting or hard sparring. Your hands go wherever they want sometimes. I practiced like 50-100 round kicks per day and every single time I had one hand on my chin and the other right above my leg...then I watch the fight and my hands went everywhere but where I had trained them to go.



But since his hands are in an acceptable position, I can't see how you can criticize this kick by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe you could hit him but he could block that hit and hit your stomach, which you could in turn block and then throw a sidekick, which he could catch and then and then....we're not talking about chess here it's a fight and it probably will not go as planned the only way to see what would happen is to really fight, we can't tell by looking at some pictures.

[Shaolin-Do]

Never said it was necessarily right or wrong, Im just playing devils advocate. Each way has advantages and disadvantages. Throwing out a backfist with the side kick actually helps generate a little bit more power.
I prefer to keep my hands up however, in a real fight, somebodies home boy may stick you in the mouth while you are kicking his friend. Chin down hands up.
And enough with this "real kung fu guys" cr@p. San Shou is "real kung fu" is it? You are teaching Lama Pai more or less, otherwise you wouldnt have anything to teach. Lama Pai is kung fu. Great that you go full contact. So do I. We wear UFC gloves on our hands, and wrestling shoes on our feet. Real enough? We dont wear chest protectors either.
Fact is, you are teaching kung fu and promoting kick boxing style events. How about showing a little respect to YOUR OWN STYLE.
I do however, appreciate use of "kung fu guys", as a very mild attempt at making that not a blanket statement... which it was.

[MonkeySlap Too]

I think there is a lesson in this thread, okay TWO lessons:

1.) CMA people need to fight others. Skilled others.

2.) Armchair fighters are armchair fighters. When I was in my prime of training the school I attended had us compete in ANY competition that had contact, regardless of rules. We had guys who did Olympic TKD, Judo, San Shou (or da, or combat shuai chiao). I did Shuai Chiao, Combat Shuai Chiao (like San Da - best we had back then), Judo and inter-school stuff. Training in these formats have benefits that outweigh the negatives. As long you don't get lost in the morass of studying the rules so you can bend them in your favor. Use it as a chance to try and get that thing you have been working on to work against opponents who are fighting YOU. In a 'safe' environment.

So get off your couch, away from the monitor, and test yourself - and do it now before you are middle-aged, have a career, and kids. 'Cause you won't have as much time for it, unless you turn it into a career....

[Merryprankster]

If you think you are going to land a cross against those kicks

Uhhh... you CAN land a cross against those kicks. Counter right hand while stepping in is fairly common--and if you don't shield with the rear hand, you can get put down. Seen it a few times....

[MonkeySlap Too]

It could be a timing game - if the kick is offensive, and the defender's weight is going back - no can do.

If the defender is on the wrong 'beat' - he'll eat the kick.

If the kick is offensive and the defender is in control of his footwork - the cross can work.

[Tit Sa]

If ross ever learned real kungfu he can say that TCMA suck; But he never did, therefore.......

[MasterKiller]

If ross ever learned real kungfu he can say that TCMA suck; But he never did, therefore.......

He's got the right credentials. Whatever you think about him personally, that statement is way off the mark.

[Shaolin-Do]

Yup. Regardless of how he FEELS about the system he teaches, he does KNOW kung fu.

[Merryprankster]

Hi Tit Sa! Welcome to the Forum.

Why don't you tell us a little about yourself and your experiences and why you hate Ross so much. Quite frankly, it sounds like you're hounding him, personally.

[Tit Sa]

I don't hate ross, I really don't, believe me.

Ok, I added some personal attacks about his shape, but that aside, what I say about his MA, in particular his TCMA training is the truth and he knows it.

But that is between me and him.