Ready to use lethal techniques

[sing fu]

All martial arts teach you to defend/fight opponents, and causing pain or injury or more serious comes with the territory here. Intent is a big factor in defending/fighting, but this is only one side of the coin.

Martial arts without a practical philosophical side can easily degenerate to training to commit violence. Here are some questions -

Have you reconciled this aspect of your training?

What is the place of compassion in your training/potentially using your art, and

How/to what extent is it covered in class?

Discuss.

[CrippledAvenger]

When I want philosophy, I go read philosophy.

When I want to learn how to hit things I seek people to instruct me accordingly.

I never expected my religion and philosophy professors to teach me how to throw a punch, why should I ask my trainer to teach me eastern philosophy?

Besides, I think moreso than philosophy, what we're talking here is about ethics, and that is much more of a parenting/educational question than martial.

[Vash]

Dang straight. I don't care if it's right or not that I just pulled this dude's heart out of his chest and subsequently forced it down his throat, I care how to do it in an efficient manner.



The idea that martial training which is not inseparable from moral, philosophical training will lead to the development of a savage killing machine is a fallacious argument. That would require the practitioner to exist in a moral, cultural vacuum outside of the practitioner's training.

[MonkeySlap Too]

I think it falls into the category of 'good sportsmanship'- a coach should be a good example, and expect his students to be good people too - otherwise you are in a moral dilemma about teaching them something that could be incorrectly applied to hurt the innocent.

But if you want enlightenment - you probably won't find it in the gym...

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too

But if you want enlightenment - you probably won't find it in the gym...

Gotta disagree with ya there, MST.

The first time you eat a good solid punch or get tossed about like a ragdoll is about as transcendent as you can get, this side of sex or poetry anyway.

[sing fu]

Thanks for your replies

CA,

Should instructors teach ethics with regard to martial arts?

Vash,

I agree none of us lives in a cultural/moral vacuum I do feel that where the teacher (who should be the focus of the group) doesn't teach these things, that a "silent agreement" develops in line with the stronger martial artists in the group - a kind of "might makes right" type deal.

Monkey Slap

Agreed re. enlightenment etc! Teachers can be good role models, but most of the time (luckily) we only see them in class or day-to-day situations. What would ABC do if he was confronted by two drunks and it was looking like they'd try to get violent? etc.. are the types of questions we probably can't answer by watching them in class.

[rogue]

Should instructors teach ethics with regard to martial arts?

If someone is going to teach what I consider combatives, something that the average civilian will not need, they have better already decided the person is someone they trust.

Teachers can be good role models, but most of the time (luckily) we only see them in class or day-to-day situations. What would ABC do if he was confronted by two drunks and it was looking like they'd try to get violent? etc.. are the types of questions we probably can't answer by watching them in class.

I've been lucky and have seen three of my sensei in action. Two were very humane.

[Serpent]

If ever I show someone a technique that is designed to seriously injure, I also try to show them an alternative, more humane version of that technique. I always try to learn that way too.

Also, the idea that MA are completely removed from philosphy is also fallacious. Shaolin kung fu as developed in a Buddhist temple after all...

[Vash]

Originally posted by sing fu
Vash,

I agree none of us lives in a cultural/moral vacuum I do feel that where the teacher (who should be the focus of the group) doesn't teach these things, that a "silent agreement" develops in line with the stronger martial artists in the group - a kind of "might makes right" type deal.

I agree. The instructor should instruct in a "moral" fashion, but as a whole, martial arts shouldn't be used as a vehicle for anything more than combat.

The rest is the practitioner's job.