Shaolin-Do answers challenge.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
The Southern Shaolin temple (if it even existed as a center for martial arts) was destroyed before Su Kong Tai Djin was even born. We've already established this.

The written legends about the Fukien Shaolin Temple and NOW archeological evidence backs this up.

If Su Kong and Ie trained at the temple then please tell us where that temple is located?

No we have not. We have established that one temple in Fukein was destroyed before this time. There were others. Please tell you where the temple Su Kong trained in is located? Can't do it .. it's destroyed.

[MasterKiller]

Can't do it .. it's destroyed.

Destroyed and obliterated off the face of the earth aren't exactly the same thing. There should be some archeological evidence from an attack by government forces on a religious monastary as recent as 1900.

[themeecer]

Well the evidence can be there whether or not it has been found yet. Time and luck may prove it's discovery. Granted we could both be dead by that time.

[shaolin kungfu]

Arnold's(as in Schwartzneger) Battle of Columbus March 5-7 San Shou turnout was pretty huge last year, and it's probably one of the biggest open tournements around. There's seperate divisions for Contemporary wushu, classical wushu, karate, tae kwon do, jujitsu, etc. etc. Plus there's a huge fitness expo going on along with it and the Governator usually shows up to give a brief speach and pick up his honrary blackbelt, trophy, plaque, whatever else piece of crap they decide to give him

I may be down there as well. Probably wont compete, but i may go to support the team and check it out.

[Skummer]

I was looking for more on Su Kong and I found two non-sd sites that mention him...

http://evolution.massey.ac.nz/lectur...s/hypertri.htm

http://mcb.berkeley.edu/courses/mcb41/lecture14.pdf
On page 12 at the above link.

Both of these sites are about genetic defects (hypertrichosis) and cite su kong as an example. However, it doesn't relate their sources for the su kong pic and info.

[themeecer]

Holy crap! How did you find that? That's cool.

[trilobite]

As for the circus/traveling performers, I think it's entirely possilbe. Most likely though we'll never know for sure, I do remember Sifu Mike Mullins mentioning one time that the "chicken walk" we do sometimes for training was what the gaurds of the travelling caravans would do back in the day. It could also explain why we have "parts" of so many different styles. I don't think it actually devalues our art in any way, but I don't know if it's true or not. And most likely GM Sin might not either. But those are the breaks. "Pure" Shaolin Kung Fu doesn't exist anymore. And I don't think we ever claimed ours to be "pure."

[MasterKiller]

And I don't think we ever claimed ours to be "pure."

originally posted by themeecer
Take heart that you are studying the most comprehensive art in the world with a direct link to the Shaolin temple. Fortunately our art left China before the 1950s or we would all be studying wushu instead of the pure art we have now.

[trilobite]

Hey! That one's on Meecer.

[shaolinarab]

MK,

did you get a haircut or something, b/c something looks different about you today?

[MasterKiller]

It's my Halloween costume. This year, I'm trick-or-treating as the publisher of Kung Fu/ Taiji Magazine.

I'm surprised you recognized me!

[Fu-Pow]

I just emailed the people who lectured on the picture of Su Kong.

We may soon know the origin of that picture.

I'd be quakin in your boots SD fellas....

[Judge Pen]

Either they have an independant source or they found it from an SD website. At worst we are arguing over the same stuff as before.

Fu Pow, you never responded to my post on the Drunken Immortals system.

[trilobite]

I really like that travelling performer theory. It's not only possible but plausible as well, though I'm not certain it's true, but I'm really not certain anything's true. We weren't there. But regardless, whomever it belongs to should get a reward for creativity.

[Fu-Pow]

I found this on a site called skepdics.com:

pseudohistory
Pseudohistory is purported history which

treats myths, legends, sagas and similar literature as literal truth
is neither critical nor skeptical in its reading of ancient historians, taking their claims at face value and ignoring empirical or logical evidence contrary to the claims of the ancients

is on a mission, not a quest, seeking to support some contemporary political or religious agenda rather than find out the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about the past

often denies that there is such a thing as historical truth, clinging to the extreme skeptical notion that only what is absolutely certain can be called 'true' and nothing is absolutely certain, so nothing is true

often maintains that history is nothing but mythmaking and that different histories are not to be compared on such traditional academic standards as accuracy, empirical probability, logical consistency, relevancy, completeness, fairness, honesty, etc., but on moral or political grounds

is selective in its use of ancient documents, citing favorably those that fit with its agenda, and ignoring or interpreting away those documents which don't fit

considers the possibility of something being true as sufficient to believe it is true if it fits with one's agenda

often maintains that there is a conspiracy to suppress its claims because of racism, atheism or ethnocentrism, or because of opposition to its political or religious agenda

I think you SDers are guilty of every one of these things.

And then when you get called out on it you say, well, we don't care anyways cause Sin The's a great guy.......