An interesting Quanpu Chachui

[mantis108]

I found an interesting Quanpu of Chachui on a Chinese PM forum.
This Quanpu is slightly different in the moves and in the usage of terms. The style, according to the poster, is a different branch of Mantis called JingShou Tanglang (Exquisite Hand praying mantis) which is a family style not quite available to the public. BTW, the exact history of it is unclear at this point. I think the story behind the style would be even more interesting. The most important thing about this Quanpu is that it uses terms that are almost identical to old style Tanglang Quanpu (ie mouth locking, double provoking, etc... ). I am sure if it is compared to the modern style, there would be more "enlightening" discovery.

Mantis108

[MantisifuFW]

Indeed an interesting Quanpu! The terms are different but one can still see the set in one's mind and there are some differences from our Northern Mantis.

I must say that I would be interested in this new style of Tanglang.

Thanks again,

Steve Cottrell

[B.Tunks]

108,

Very interesting...

This is very close to our Cha Chui Pu. The term names are also very close; Lock Mouth is in all our Quan Pu. The fourth road is different; we have no hurricane kick, no extra figure ten kick (there are four different strikes followed by white crane flashes wing again), and they use different name for white crane flashes wing (but same position at start of final road), conclusion is the same.
Of course there are a couple of other minor diffs but not too many.

B.T

[Tainan Mantis]

Robert,
Thanks for the post, very close to my version of the form.


Brendan,
Just the man I wanted to ask on this manuscript.

Before I read your reply my impression is that this is written from a Liang Hsuehsiang lineage such as Meihua or Taiji PM.

I was thinking that some one of that school learned the form and rewrote it in their style of manuscripts.
here is why:
-The character Diao that we usually use in 7* is here replace with pluck(tsai) in every single case.
-In the third road is the technique called riding the horse double "call"

This is part of the 12 Character formula of Liang Hsuehsiang lineage:
The 4 characters together are Lai Jiao Hsun Song/come, call , follow, send.

These two aspects are what I would expect to see in Liang Hsuehsiang lineage.

Most of everything else seems to be terms that are common among Shandong 7* and the Liang Hsuehsiang lineages.

So this form follows mine very closely, but like yours no Hurricane kick, otherwise the fourth road seems to be exactly like mine, including the figure 10 kick and heart piercing kick.

So my question would be...
In 7* you have seen does tsai/pluck replace diao?
Is Jiao/call part of many 7*manuscripts or your mantis theory?

If the answer to the above questions is "no" then I think some Meihua people learned this form and rewrote the manuscript in their own style.

[Joe Mantis]

I do know a similar style of "Jing Shou", which is called "Shuai Shou Tang Lang".
Master Li Da Lin from Shanghai knows this system as well. Contingently its the same style.
____________________________________________


Would Master Li Da Lin know any History of WL Tang Lang?
Maybe there is a connection???

What's "Jing Shou?"


thanks ya'll

[B.Tunks]

Hello Tainan,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tainan Mantis

Before I read your reply my impression is that this is written from a Liang Hsuehsiang lineage such as Meihua or Taiji PM.

-Yes it appears that way.

I was thinking that some one of that school learned the form and rewrote it in their style of manuscripts.
here is why:
The character Diao that we usually use in 7* is here replace with pluck(tsai) in every single case.

-Cai/Tsai is also a very common term in mainland Qixing Pu and Diao is not really too common.

In the third road is the technique called riding the horse double "call"

-We aslo have this name for the same movement but in this form it is listed in the manuscript as 'Shun Shou Qian Yang' (in fact in full it reads, leading goat to the rear). But we do have Shuang Jiao.


This is part of the 12 Character formula of Liang Hsuehsiang lineage:
The 4 characters together are Lai Jiao Hsun Song/come, call , follow, send.

-Though this is not part of our 12 character formula we certainly have this principle.
I checked through my Quan Pu properly and although the form is similar, the terminology is in fact a lot more different than I initially stated. However, basically the same movements are covered (minus a few, which make this form look quite modified).

These two aspects are what I would expect to see in Liang Hsuehsiang lineage.

-I will check where we usually use the term Double Call/Shout and get back to you. I do know that Cha Chui was definitely never part of meihua and where it was adopted was changed to fit the system, therefore the terminology matches their Pu, as you guessed.
Incidentally, there are many Meihua/Taijimeihua people in China who dont even regard this form as Tanglang!


Most of everything else seems to be terms that are common among Shandong 7* and the Liang Hsuehsiang lineages.

-Agreed. One thing though, this Quan Pu is very sparse and has very little detail therefore is quite short compared to my version.

So this form follows mine very closely, but like yours no Hurricane kick, otherwise the fourth road seems to be exactly like mine, including the figure 10 kick and heart piercing kick.

-There is another kick in the last route though in ours its not really a figure ten kick, though it is a heel kick with opposite hand punch that comes out of a front foot cross step (comes after White Crane Flashes Wing at start of 4th route, you can see the difference in terminology very clearly with their name for this kick).

So my question would be...
In 7* you have seen does tsai/pluck replace diao?

In many cases yes.

Is Jiao/call part of many 7*manuscripts or your mantis theory?

Also yes.

If the answer to the above questions is "no" then I think some Meihua people learned this form and rewrote the manuscript in their own style.

The answers are yes but I still tend to agree that this was rewritten in a different style.

I have gone in almost in a circle on this one, ha ha...
hope this helped.
B.T

[mantis108]

I am glad that I waited a bit for the input. It is fascinating that info indicates there possibly were exchanges going on between the lineages. I agreed with Tainan posts most. Also, thank you Brendan for the detailed post. It would be great if we have a chance to take a peek at your Cha Chui Quanpu. Thanks

It would seem that stylistic difference in not only in physical movements but also in the mental pictures - the way Quanpu and terms are written. The "style" of Quanpu would often give away the "lean" or "tendency" of a practitioner.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[mantis108]

I found an webpage concerning Jingshou Tanglang's background info in Chinese.

http://tanglangquan.35123.net/p24.htm

Note the similarity it shares with 7 stars in HK curriculum wise.

Mantis108