Energy in SLT...

[Phenix]

this state of mind can be in any athelete , artist , anyone with a calm clear focus , nothing to do with chan , everything to to do with being a human.-----------E



Ernie,

This is what the Buddha said:


"¡°You concentrate on learning
to uphold the Buddha¡¯s Dharma (teaching)
Why don¡¯t you listen to your own hearing?"



So, even the buddha said be a human and work up from there instead of trying to be something is not, and with the mind keep spin but go no where.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by John Weiland


Where should I focus while reading KFO?

Regards,

aware of the silence which read the post, which embrace the KFO post, and make up the post.

and if one aware of those silence. where is not silence? hahahaha

[Ernie]

hendrik
So, even the buddha said be a human and work up from there instead of trying to be something is not, and with the mind keep spin but go no where.

but there were humans before the words of buddha we ever written so this state of mind has always been nothing some one just wrote about it .

but enough with the religious not my thing , i'll tune back in when we get to eye jabs and head butts

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Ernie
hendrik

but there were humans before the words of buddha we ever written so this state of mind has always been nothing some one just wrote about it .

sure before you know Gary there is this silence but you don't know that silence.

so after Gary kick your but you know that silence and this silence.

so well, that silence is always there but you need Gary to show you that silence. it is allllllll about silence.

Buddha means the enlighten one. So Gary is your buddha. and there always buddha around even you will become one. OMMM.

how long since you watching a mountain or a sea side without any thought but just watching?

[Ernie]

hendrik
so after Gary kick your but you know that silence and this silence.
actualy ,
the silence has always been there since i was a child , and when i used to fight , it was oddly peaceful like watching a movie . but i didn't know what the '' silence was called ''

i did a stress overload drill a few years ago were 6 people with gloves surround you and kick punch ,stomp , push and through you down and keep kicking you .
now the goal here is to accept and become one with a no win situation . it was an amazing growth experience because at first you try desperatly to rationalize and control the siuation, but you quickly realize you can't your emotions go through the roof your heart is racing , your in pain and disorented ,
then some were along the way you just kind of vanish '' accept death'' and a calm quite surrounds you .
after you let go of all your predetermined scenrios and just become one with the moment suddenly a funny thing happens you sar to see and feel oppertunities , a leg a arm a gap all become clear .
the fog of war lifts alittle .
now your still getting a gold old fashion passionate a$$ whoppin.
and there is no way out , thats the purpose of this drill . but you gain an experience and a sense of calmness .
trial by fire i guess , now this is a controoled drill you get banged up and alittle bloody but nothing broken .
now i have been in a one against a gang in real life and i got cut and kicked in the face and punched at full power , hell i even got pistol whipped '' that's a whole nother high school story ''
but the emotions between the drill and the real were very similar .
if you can find silence in a multiple attack situation when things are not going your way,
think about how easy one person in front of you is

[Phenix]

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Watching the moving cloud and flowing water.
doesn't use that much of energy
searching for Dao to disolve fighting
beyond million of things and surpase
Looking for those who knows the sound, but difficult to find.
then be friend with nature.



Ernie,

A good song.

since the silence is always there. win is there. lost is there. anger is there, happy is there,..awake is there, dreaming is there. nothing changes, nothing lost, nothing get taken away why fight?

Time to go watching the ocean suft without thinking and use much energy.

Watching the moving cloud and flowing water.
doesn't use that much of energy.......


Jeremy,

You have a royal heart and want to protect the truth.
I understand you your path.... Perhaps I was there a quater of century before.

you keep swimming and swim very deligently but you have no direction of where is the other side of the river. may be here now is the otherside of the river. you can't be there
if you can't recognized it.

May I make a suggestion?
you need to let every ideas or truth others tell you go. and examine what is your nature, accepting who are you. don't try to make yourself become something according to others idea, you need to listern what is the silence which exist everytime..awake or dream or happy or sad...... then may be nothing happen. may be something happen.

you need to cultivate your awareness, alertness, sensitivity or capability to accept similar to an ocean will accept everything, and then attain for yourself to know what is there.
Save all the energy, because to enter silence with awareness and alertness one needs every bits of energy but not forcing it.

You don't have to believe me. I might con you or trick you. I migh telling you the truth equally to i tell every one. I might be right I might be wrong. Just a suggestion.

But, I belive. Somedays, somedays you will replay what I post here in your mind when you have search all the ways..... It is similar to the Oracle telling Neo. I don't know what will happen. But I belive. Someday.... you are a good person so you shall found.
Best luck.

[anerlich]

Nice guess John, but no cigar.

Where should I focus while reading KFO?

On the screen in front of you, I guess

[russellsherry]

hi guys the longerst time , i did sil lim tao was for three hours at a camp, it was a very hard expereince for me but after it my centerline , came out and my hands were very quick in sparring in fact i gave a black belt a bloody nose in sparring,, that day my first sifu could not belive it , i do not recomend , this type of training though you should keep the blood flowing and relexed at all times correct hand postion is important, power comes from the center and should be explosive peace russellsherry

[passing_through]

The silence you think is silence might not be the buddha's "silence."

The silence you think I think might not be the silence you think is the Buddha’s “silence”. Do you know what I think? Are you me?

That sky in the picture is not the real sky no matter how you keep think and keep imagining. Thus, one needs Real Patriach to teach one and verify one's attainment.

Real Patriarch? Signed and sealed? Why do I need someone to tell me what I see for myself? Can your eyes see for me?

Playing with quotes as you are so fond, I give you this:

Q:- My teacher has the authority to teach Zen. I have seen his credentials. What is your authority and where is your proof?

A:- Buddhism only recognizes one authority. That is Mind which is also the Buddha. If you have seen Mind's nature then you have the authority, given to you by the Buddha, to do has you please. If not, then you should guard both yours words and your actions. Those who claim to have the authority to teach Zen, showing off their robes and certificates, have no authority since these things are not Mind. Over the years, I have seen that anyone, with enough money, can become a Zen master almost over night. So it proves nothing to brag about your teacher's credentials. In the past good students could recognize good teachers just by listening to a word or two. In their heart, they were searching for the one true source of all, having recognized that Mara's shadow was upon them. And because they were searching in this manner, their hearts resonated with the ideal teacher who had safely crossed to the other shore. Today, inferior students can only recognize inferior teachers judging them by looking at their wares like merchants. This implies that they only resonate with materialism and not Mind. As for proof, if you only want mouse sh~t, rather than gold, there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Evidently, you are attached to the trappings of conventional Zen.

I might be the worst evil demon in your view and reasoning.

Funny that you’re the only one worried about demons. Put demons out of your mind – why do you continually mention them? You’re not a demon to me, you’re nothing more than words on a page and a memory of shrieking laughter at your own jokes. You really need to get over yourself. You don't scare me and you're words are even less.

you might not want to dig into it also because even if you prof me wrong you might not be able to use your old thinking patern as before anymore. the old world melt down and the old ways of thinking has to go. Sometimes, know more is not a good thing.

What is old? What is new? I think today, I’ll think tomorrow. Thinking and feeling comes and goes – energy comes, energy plays, energy goes. *shrug* I think, I don’t think – sometimes I sleep, sometimes I eat. Right or wrong don’t mean much to me – which way are you going? That’s all for today.

when you dream do you hear?

yes. you?

You have a royal heart and want to protect the truth.
I understand you your path.... Perhaps I was there a quater of century before.

Ah, old man,
quick
teach me your wisdom
that I might know
where not to go
and what not to do
I walk the middle
You walk to the left
A compliment as a slap,
save your breath.

you keep swimming and swim very deligently but you have no direction of where is the other side of the river. may be here now is the otherside of the river. you can't be there
if you can't recognized it.

Oh, but there are no secrets - you said so yourself. I'll call the Mat Jung Buddhists (all of 'em) and let 'em know they're stuff is just common knowledge.

May I make a suggestion?

You may do whatever you wish, only you limit yourself.

you need to let every ideas or truth others tell you go. and examine what is your nature, accepting who are you. don't try to make yourself become something according to others idea, you need to listern what is the silence which exist everytime..awake or dream or happy or sad...... then may be nothing happen. may be something happen.

Funny words for a guy that throws out quotes like it was going out of style.

Do you walk with my feet?
That would be a treat.
No, just a real feat.
Let me know when you find some heat.
I’m tired of hearing you bleat.

to enter silence with awareness and alertness one needs every bits of energy but not forcing it.

I’ll breath in when I need to breath in and exhale when I exhale. Or do I need you to suggest that to me, too?

You don't have to believe me. I might con you or trick you. I migh telling you the truth equally to i tell every one. I might be right I might be wrong. Just a suggestion.

Don’t you know what you are? Or do you need someone to remind you? I don't believe you and I don't not-believe you. *shrug* Your words are like wind, blowing through the air. You tell "the truth" that is only conventional truth. It's not what is said - it's what is left unsaid that has all the more import.

you are a good person so you shall found.

Ah, see.. there’s your mistake. As you’ve posted 3x before, I’m a demon, remember? For the record, I’m not a good person... I’m just a person. There’s no lost so there’s no found. I am where I am and not somewhere else. Kinda simply really. Or haven’t you figured that out yet?

As for my comment about focus - I didn't quantify the level of focus I just said focus. But what did I mean with that word? You're the one that when looking for forced effort. Who's forcing what? On whom?

Jeremy R.

[passing_through]

there is that good old hfy arrogance we all no and love

No arrogance – just a guy stating what he sees. You miss the point of the Formula. You’re talking from a different timeframe in your post. You wrote about not factoring in stepping on a banana peel. The Formula deals with understanding structure first and foremost, before even getting into discussing how/when/where to move. You’re jumping the gun in your assumptions and dismissing something you don’t understand that may or may not be of benefit to you. If you decide ahead of time that it is no use for you, you’re right. Hence, my comment about ego. You decided that the formula is worthless. It may or may not – you won’t know if you don’t investigate for yourself.

I don’t need acceptance – however, if I see you talking trash out of ignorance, I’ll say something. I’m not hiding behind tired old sayings or other people’s accomplishments - just stating what I see.

if you need to worship Chan , Buddha , wing chun a rock a tree a trigonometry book to make you feel like a whole person then god bless you but don't put that crap on me . I'm not that insecure

You can see, based on your experience – but what do you really see? I’ll accept that you’re effective – but how efficient are you? Good enough? Is it possible to get better? Does what you do cause you to miss efficiency by doing too much or too little – how do you measure efficiency? In HFY this is part of the function of the formula. It provides a frame of reference to understand the time and space in front of you – and by understanding your own structure, you understand your opponent’s structure.

it's very simple angles of attack and developing a living relationship with your opponent and there position , read there intent and intercept there action , not rocket science Einstein

just spend time in the moment , eliminate internal dialogue and relate . so put away the protractor and get little gully

Angles of attack based on what?
Intercept there action at what moment? Again, based on what?
Do you see the point I’m trying to make?

get over yourself and try looking outside of you little chan filter

Actually, if you take the time to investigate things, you’ll find that I’ve related lots of things to Chan and Chan to a lot of things… and a lot of things to each other w/o Chan being involved. The narrow mind is Hendrik, trying to argue that Chan can only be explained/understood/taught *his* way based on *his* understanding and *his* experience of the sutras. As for me being narrow, you don’t know my background. Interesting how all I said was your ego was getting involved and now you’re calling me arrogant, accuse me of speaking bull$hit, hiding behind others, etc.. I submit that you’re calling me names due to your ego, still involved. I haven’t called you names, have it? Insulted your experience or understanding? Dismissed you or your experience for no reason? I suggested you need more time on the training floor or the meditation pillow – who doesn’t (and I include myself in that statement)? In my opinion, you’re ego still isn’t in check based on your reaction to my comments.

Jeremy R.

[Ernie]

jeremy
hahahaha dude your my new hero
i thought all you spiritual cats were very centered human beings ,
guess your just as gully as the rest of us,
i love it

as for the whole formula thing of couse i don't know your specific formula , and if it creates points of reference for your training and concepts , thenit serves it's purpose ,
but guess what everybody has a formula , wing chun, kali boxing . football basket ball and so on any time humans line up in confrontation , nothing new and everone thinks there's is the best ,

but the best laid plans fail , and human adaptability keeps you flowing and this is my point , every formula is flawed because we are flawed , i just hate to see people trapped by the process , and the impression i got is your formula was being put out like the answer for everything ,
now that may not be your intention but that is the feeling i pick up from the book and the post , and i have been around long enough to know that is impossible .


[[You can see, based on your experience – but what do you really see? I’ll accept that you’re effective – but how efficient are you? Good enough? Is it possible to get better? Does what you do cause you to miss efficiency by doing too much or too little ]]

simple answer i will never be good enough since i can never calculate who or where or when i might fight, all i can do is remove the internal barriers that keep me from flowing and accepting a sitauation ,
ego being one of them , i really have no ego there is nothing for me to gain or lose in these word interactions , it's a game
i see a kink in the armour of a idea , or over confidence and i poke fun at it , like in a fight a feeler to cause a reaction ,
if a person is centered and confident in themselves they don't react , if there a little insecure then they react , the more emotional the reaction the higher level of ego or insecurity . thus my statement about filling voids .


[[Angles of attack based on what?
Intercept there action at what moment? Again, based on what?
Do you see the point I’m trying to make?]]

nope to me this is obvious , just move around with different people and you will quickly realize what works and what doesn't you understand the realtionship between you and the opponent , but this is to easy i guess , so people avoid swimming and come up with all these concepts and fromulas to tray and crystalize a living changing enviroment , never understood that logic
it's like i can sit hear and teach some one about all the mechnics in catching a ball have them practice all the possible positions come up with drill and formulas to try and cover all the variable s
or i can just toss them a ball and let nature take over , then fine tune them after the have developed a person experience to the activity.
guess that's just to simple and wouldn't see books magazines or videos

as for the chan thing if thats your thing and keeps you from going postal , well good for you



[[As for me being narrow, you don’t know my background. Interesting how all I said was your ego was getting involved and now you’re calling me arrogant, accuse me of speaking bull$hit, hiding behind others, etc.. I submit that you’re calling me names due to your ego, still involved. I haven’t called you names, have it? Insulted your experience or understanding? Dismissed you or your experience for no reason? I suggested you need more time on the training floor or the meditation pillow – who doesn’t (and I include myself in that statement)? In my opinion, you’re ego still isn’t in check based on your reaction to my comments. ]]

when and if you can speak on personal experience with out waving a linage banner , reciting some one elses saying , or useing some proverb ,
i will admit i am wrong until then it's all a smoke screen to me , and i don't mean that in a mean or egotistal way i use that filter on everything
that's just me ,
thanks for the entertainment and good luck with your training

[Savi]

1. Regarding your comments to Jeremy:

originally posted by ernie
"Jeremy, hahahaha dude your my new hero i thought all you spiritual cats were very centered human beings , guess your just as gully as the rest of us, i love it "

Ummm... what the flock? Even leaving aside the question of what word you actually meant by "gully", I don't understand what (in Jeremy's post) he's reacting to here. What is there that indicates to him that Jeremy is not centered?

originally posted by ernie
"i really have no ego there is nothing for me to gain or lose in these word interactions , it's a game"

Ok, so you had no emotional investment in the discussion whatsoever when you wrote:

originally posted by ernie
"there is that good old hfy arrogance we all no and love"

"don't put that crap on me . I'm not that insecure"

"not rocket science Einstein"

"get over yourself and try looking outside of you little chan filter"

Compare that with Jeremy's post and tell me who more closely fits this description of ego and insecurity:

originally posted by ernie
"if a person is centered and confident in themselves they don't react, if there a little insecure then they react , the more emotional the reaction the higher level of ego or insecurity"

Maybe you're referring to "emotional" reactions like:

originally posted by passing through
"You're dismissing your understanding of the formula rather than the formula itself"

"Guess you need more time on the training floor - or on the meditation pillow."

"You miss the point of the Formula."

"I don't need acceptance - however, if I see you talking trash out of ignorance, I'll say something."

"I'll accept that you're effective - but how efficient are you? Good enough? Is it possible to get better?"

"I submit that you're calling me names due to your ego, still involved. I haven't called you names, have it? Insulted your experience or understanding? Dismissed you or your experience for no reason?"

Gosh, what a raving bundle of ego and insecurity Jeremy must be, to lash out in this manner! Ernie… OK, to be fair, these statements come close to emotionally lashing out. Just not at you...

originally posted by passing through
"there's no connection between learning to fight and learning Chan according to Hendrik. Your own experience contradicts him. Funny how life does that to ideas."

"The narrow mind is Hendrik"

Jeremy is no pinch hitter Ernie, he is one sophisticated "cat" when it comes to fighting (Schwarzeneggar Classics/Battle of Columbus grand champion; one of the largest martial arts competitions in the world), as well as head knowledge.

2. Regarding your other comments about HFY:

originally posted by ernie
as for the whole formula thing of couse i don't know your specific formula , and if it creates points of reference for your training and concepts , thenit serves it's purpose ,
but guess what everybody has a formula , wing chun, kali boxing . football basket ball and so on any time humans line up in confrontation , nothing new and everone thinks there's is the best ,

but the best laid plans fail , and human adaptability keeps you flowing and this is my point , every formula is flawed because we are flawed , i just hate to see people trapped by the process , and the impression i got is your formula was being put out like the answer for everything ,
now that may not be your intention but that is the feeling i pick up from the book and the post , and i have been around long enough to know that is impossible .

You don’t know our specific formula, yet you already assume it is no different (in nature or purpose) than any other method of any other activity. First of all, your understanding of the HFY formula is not THE formula. As Jeremy pointed out, your only dismissing your understanding of the formula – not the formula itself.

Though this may be over many people’s understanding, the nature of the HFYWCK formula is to reinforce what IS natural for us as humans (in static postures and movements). You cannot relate to the formula because you have to experience it to understand its purpose. Once you understand the formula, you should see it as no different as the existence of Time Space and Energy. TS&E are always in flux within us and between our opponents, but they are always there. The formula is always there, it’s just a matter of being able to recognize the varying degrees of your expression of it. BTW, it is those varying degrees that are the flaws we create as humans (nobody is perfect) – and only someone who knows those specific details will be able to recognize them, and with precision.

originally posted by ernie
just move around with different people and you will quickly realize what works and what doesn't you understand the realtionship between you and the opponent , but this is to easy i guess , so people avoid swimming and come up with all these concepts and fromulas to tray and crystalize a living changing enviroment , never understood that logic
it's like i can sit hear and teach some one about all the mechnics in catching a ball have them practice all the possible positions come up with drill and formulas to try and cover all the variable s or i can just toss them a ball and let nature take over , then fine tune them after the have developed a person experience to the activity.
guess that's just to simple and wouldn't see books magazines or videos

The swimming you are talking about is precisely the only way people can identify with those strategies and tactics Ernie. I agree that robbing someone of the ‘swimming’ (experience) is IMO unethical. This we do not do, we don’t even teach those things (the deeper concepts and theories) until they are well into their training and development. The basic concepts and theories are used to guide the beginner on their chosen path. The deeper concepts and theories, strategy and tactics are revealed long after they begin their training and combat experience. As you said: “let nature take over , then fine tune them” This is the process we use as well; do what’s natural.

You have the right ideas in your quote above, but you seem to think HFY is the opposite of your beliefs. In truth, we can never see past the things we don’t understand. Hopefully the “smoke screen” you have will eventually fade.

[[Censored]]

Though this may be over many people’s understanding, the nature of the HFYWCK formula is to reinforce what IS natural for us as humans (in static postures and movements). You cannot relate to the formula because you have to experience it to understand its purpose.

Nobody here can relate to your HFY formula, even though we all live in the natural world, and yet you claim the formula is natural? Can you explain this?

Is there anyone who has experienced this formula and didn't understand it, or didn't agree with it? Was it because they were flawed and the formula is perfect, or because the formula is flawed?

[taltos]

The only problems I have had with the formula is my own tendency to get "sloppy" and sacrifice structure for speed. But these speak more to my personality than they do to the value of the formula itself.

The formula has been invaluable to me as a tool of self-correction and a yard-stick to ensure precise and strong structures and positions throughout any motions and exercises I engage in. After having been exposed to the formula, having the formula explained, and having trained and drilled it, I cannot engage in my Wing Chun training without being mindful of it at all times.

Of course, I still make mistakes (as we all do), but the formula has helped me recognize, minimize, and correct those errors.

Just my 2 cents.

-Levi

[PaulH]

I found a lost kuit of the people of the Middle Road! Enjoy!

The Road goes ever on and on
Out from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
Let others follow it who can!
Let them a journey new begin,
But I at last with weary feet
Will turn towards the lighted inn,
My evening-rest and sleep to meet.

Savvy the Gray