Brooklyn Monk Article

[Scythefall]

A lot of what you said, mirrors my thoughts on the matter, Songshan. The monks that have immigrated to the US teach a spectacular curriculum. They teach traditional and wushu. They also teach the internal. The Three Treasures are taught by these monks. From what Antonio says, he didn't get that in China. He basically ended up in a training camp for wushu demo teams. I don't see him as skeptical, considering he said he was looking for the internal and he could not find it.

I think Gene is the most correct. It really depends on how you prepare for your trip. I'm sure if you contact a trainer there and let them know what you would like to learn, they can arrange to have you spend time learning Shaolin wushu and then transfer you over to an internal class at some point, I'm sure.

Personally, I"m curious as to what Antonio did learn.

[fanzi]

At the temple in China it probably depends on who you get to coach you there. Some focus more on forms and there's probably some badass fighters there too. But there is way too much hype there and here in the U.S.. Shaolin has a great history, and great martial arts and masters have been spread all across China, not just at the temple. Don't anyone assume that the best fighters / martial artists are necessarily at Shaolin Temple. And about Shaolin being not just about fighting but about discpline and hardwork--that's all martial arts, and sports, medical school and the gong fu of many aspects of life--nothing special to Shaolin. And as for the Monks in the U.S. teaching the real deal without the desire for capital gain, have you met Shi Yan Ming? He pumps his students for cash, doesn't know forms applications, and barely any weapons. Yet,if you ask him what styles he knows he says "every style."

Shaolin has some good masters, but please, don't believe the hype.

fanzi

[David Jamieson]

K first of all, I would like to say that I think that Gene's Shaolin Do i fake and not from the real source, secondly I'd like to say... Bwahahahaha.

OK, all that aside, I think one of the main points that is getting touched here is in regards to "hardship".

Hardship and suffering is the forge of greatness my fellow posters. To spend some time in the fire will temper you a whole lot more than someone who has no time in the fire.

In western society, we find that often we must create hardship to discover its benefits. IE: the runner who trains in inclement weather, the Kungfu guy who trains in the cold, and so on. Hardship has more benefits than not and you will gain from taking that route I 100% agree. I just don't believe there is an easy path to getting good at anything.

Easy path= finger paint, hardship path=sistine chapel

Antonio, I enjoyed your article despite it's edgy look at what hardship stacked upon hardship does to the monks and people in and around the shaolin temple.

Still, I would have followed Gene's advice and looked to the folk masters in the area to go beyond the wushu stuff. Ultimately, I prefer the unsterilized look at Shaolin as opposed to the antiseptic group tour perspective

Cheers

[Songshan]

posted by fanzi

Don't anyone assume that the best fighters / martial artists are necessarily at Shaolin Temple. And about Shaolin being not just about fighting but about discpline and hardwork--that's all martial arts, and sports, medical school and the gong fu of many aspects of life--nothing special to Shaolin. And as for the Monks in the U.S. teaching the real deal without the desire for capital gain, have you met Shi Yan Ming? He pumps his students for cash, doesn't know forms applications, and barely any weapons. Yet,if you ask him what styles he knows he says "every style."

Yes there are good fighters/martial artists in other places other than Shaolin, thats a good point. What drew me to Shaolin is the history, the monks, what Shaolin stands for and of course the martial arts. It was the whole package not just one and those are my reasons for sticking with it. Like I said, It's not for everybody.

I have never personally met Shi Yan Ming, but I would really like to one day (all the monks in NY really). I would love to spend a few training days with his school. Having been around monks myself, I think you mis understood his "every style" comment. I have an idea what he means. I am not really sure why you think he doesn't know forms or weapons. Shi Yang Ming was at Shaolin the same time Shi Guolin, Shi Xing Hao and a lot of the other monks were. They all have knowledge of each other and I am sure trained together at some point. Fanzi, I have seen lots of people come into Shi Xing Hao's school here in Houston and demand him to demonstrate what he knows before they join. It's almost like they test him to see if he worthy enough to teach them kung fu which is ridiculous. The prospective student usually leaves in utter dissapointment because he declines. Some even leave after just a few weeks of training because they literally demand to learn the "secrets" to Shaolin instead of taking the slow progressive steps. So you have to keep that in mind.

[crazymaddrunk]

K, Second of all I'd like to say that I don't think Canadians are real people, Bwahahahaha.

[Salacious Crumb]

K, third of all, I don't consider online personas who lie about knowing Hung Gar and being NY Cops when really they live in San Antonio (very close to me, no less) and take Shaolin-Do to be real people, either. Bwahahahahahahah

[GeneChing]

To quote the Koran "Did you suppose that you would go to Paradise untouched by the suffering which was endured by those before you? Affliction and adversity befell them..." - From the Cow

A lot of people have no real idea what a spiritual martial practice is, much less how that integrates in today's modern world. There are still chambers to penetrate, still tests to pass before you can enter, but those tests aren't so pre-meditated, like the 36 chambers. They are totally different because we live in a different world. Grandmaster's Suxi's pagoda expresses that very well - to be Zen about it all, Shaolin is a timeless anachronism.

[blooming lotus]

GOOD POINT GENE!

Especially when you consider that the guy who created martial arts in china (according the sutas), acknowledged internal art and spiritualism and absolutely essential and crucial part of Cma - so really, if your not doing this...I dont care what you say , YOU ARE NOT...i SAY NOT!!!!! PRACTICING KUNG FU!!!!!!!! BUT A WATERED DOWN 1/2 VERSION AND ADMIT IT!!! YOUR CLUELESS!!!!!


however, the good news is that enlightenment and growth has place for all

ps..hate me 2x...really...If you need to, I can deal with it

[Songshan]

Iam not a NY cop. I live in Houston and work in a suburb of Houston if you are referring to me. Let's get the facts straight.

[GeneChing]

I had a great time visiting with your Shifu last weekend. But he called me down on all of this - wanted to know why we published it if it reflects badly on Shaolin. Ever have to answer to a Shaolin monk that way? I blame you.

Actually, it was really fantastic to see him again. When he and my Shifu were reunited after 6 years apart, that was a great moment to witness.

[Scythefall]

Originally posted by GeneChing
I had a great time visiting with your Shifu last weekend. But he called me down on all of this - wanted to know why we published it if it reflects badly on Shaolin. Ever have to answer to a Shaolin monk that way? I blame you.

Well, hopefully you explained to him that it was posted as a buyer beware. Personally, I would not have known where to start to visit Shaolin Temple were it not for this thread, fueled by Antonio's post. A couple of you have posted invaluable information to help us Westerners in getting decent lodging and on how to pick a school should we ever go.

Which is good. I got a fortune cookie today at Panda Express. It says "You will enjoy a nice trip to Asia"

Why was my first thought of Antonio's article?!

[richard sloan]

I was being pumped for cash...boy do I feel dumb.

Without knowing with who and where you trained Anthony, I just have a few comments.

I liked your article for the most part. I could see the end coming almost a mile away though.

Most of Shaolin today is like colonial williamsburgh. But if you look hard enough, you can get the real deal and not the capitalistic snowjob you got put through. Ch'an is definitely alive and well there, if you look to the older generations still there. I know of people who got taken, sort of like you, for a bit of a ride, and then there are those that have the experience you were probably hoping to get. I'm sure Gene could have steered you in the right direction, and set you up nicely with the right people, as could I, or Dr. Russel of russbo.

On our last trip back to Shaolin, some of the 'monks' could not respond to any questions regarding buddhism or Ch'an, asked of them by a native mandarin speaker. When Cash Pumping Every Style Knowin and Every Style Teachin' Mack Daddy Shifu Shi Yan Ming saw who we were talking to, after he stooped down to pick up all the cash that had dropped out of his pockets, he just chuckled, then ducked away to have some tea with his master Shi Yong Chen. And when we asked him why they were so clueless, he told us they used to be janitors and must have gotten a promotion. They clock in, and they clock out. Yong Chen seemed to follow what we were talking about and he looked sad.

Anyway, Antonio, you mention sparring the San Da team. Which team? From the school you trained at? From Tagou? From the Temple? There are lots of points your article raises that this information would answer. To me, it is important to make the distinction that you were training at just one school, and there's like 80 at least, and they all claim some kind of association with Shaolin, legitimate or not. Did you spar any actual monks? That punch that sent you back, do you think it was done with intent to kill? What if he hit your head. He was just a coach.

I've held bags for Shi Yan Ming, as well as various other sifus of different styles from Muay Thai to self defense guys. I have no doubt he could drop me if he wanted with a shot to my head or body. I nearly crumpled from a sidekick through a bag. I've never been hit by anything like what he throws, and I can tell he's definitely witholding, for which I am greatful. He can make the kung fu movie dub sound just by moving his arm for crissakes, especially after he scoops up all the money he pumps me for. (sorry- I can be a sarcastic *******) I think there is a pretty big difference between monk and disciple and student and you were in the low to mid level of what Shaolin can offer. Anyway, from what you wrote, I'm making the assumption you fought mostly students, and with your fighting experience I can see you getting the best of them. You did mention only the coaches could beat you. But if you were put into a fighting pool with Shaolin's best, I think there would be different outcomes. From the article, it sounds like you got sucked into a mediocre wushu school, which is probably a little too common there now.

[Brooklyn Monk]

A lot of people mentioned Yan Ming, I've never met him, but at shaolin they all knew who he was. and he was really a monk. most of the schools are not actually run by monks. and most of the students are not monks, so beware of peolle wearing orange robes. anyone can buy the robe and make a photo.

If your sifu in america teaches you to fight, that is wonderful. I wasn't commenting on your sifu. i was comenting on the temple.

as for the san da team at Tago, I clearly agree, had i gone to shaolin and lived and trained with a serious san da team, i probably would have had a much different opinion of their fighting ability.

what i was trying to express, and this is the thing that has often made it difficult for me to practice arts outside of strictly fighting, is this:

I am now living at Waat Maa Tang, a Muay Thai monastery, on the Thailand/Myanmar border. we wake up in the morning and we fight. we go to bed at night, and we fight. if they say someone is good at muay thai, they mean he is a good fighter. there is almost nothing else to the muay thai. and they all fight, for money, once a month. no smoke and mirrors. no chi gong, death touch, flying monkey, snake form. it's just fighting.

we also have to attend prayers at least twice a day and study buddhism. and this was not the case at the temple.

when people talk about the Sifu here, they respect him because he won like fifty professional fights. there is nothing mysterious here. you train and you fight.

[Scythefall]

Hey Antonio! Welcome back!

I do want to say it is good that you do study Buddhism and have prayer. Prayer and just sitting makes a difference in your forms and your fighting. And you are certainly right, there is nothing else to Muay Thai except fighting. That's why we have a Muay Thai student who had to leave a prominent school. He was shot by accident and Muay Thai had nothing for him. He took damage to his lower body and was now unfit for the style. He's in our Shaolin school studying Tai Chi and Chi Gung..the smoke and mirrors..and he's healing. He goes to kung fu class from time to time and does well. Whatever aches and pains he gathers from the exertion will fade away because his body is in that state of healing.

You'll eventually get to where you'll seek that out. Right now, i'm glad to hear you're in a place you enjoy and you definitely get it. I still look forward to hearing more about your daily exercise at Shaolin, but until then, train hard and keep us posted

[Salacious Crumb]

Originally posted by Songshan
Iam not a NY cop. I live in Houston and work in a suburb of Houston if you are referring to me. Let's get the facts straight.

I was referring to crazymadpunk.