TMA, MMA and jing

[Chang Style Novice]

I had a hunch social satire of japanese culture would be a bigger priority for a japanese art form. I saw one called "Deep Blue" or something that was about a pop star turned actress being stalked that I figured would probably resonate a lot more deeply if I understood Jap-pop culture better.

Thanks for the clarification on Kenshin - I've seen the name around, but had no idea what it was about. I'll endeavor to look at some soon. Probably the OAVs, since you seem to prefer them. What does that acronym stand for, anyway? Knowing that will help me find the right stuff, I betcha.

[Chang Style Novice]

Oops! Just saw 7* gave some reccomendations too - dangers of fast posting, I guess.

Anyway, thanks! I saw Ninja Scroll a long time ago - pretty good horror as I recall.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
I had a hunch social satire of japanese culture would be a bigger priority for a japanese art form. I saw one called "Deep Blue" or something that was about a pop star turned actress being stalked that I figured would probably resonate a lot more deeply if I understood Jap-pop culture better.

That'd be "Perfect Blue", and it was a pretty good flick, although more understandable if you have some background knowledge of the Japanese "idol singers" phenomenon.

Thanks for the clarification on Kenshin - I've seen the name around, but had no idea what it was about. I'll endeavor to look at some soon. Probably the OAVs, since you seem to prefer them. What does that acronym stand for, anyway? Knowing that will help me find the right stuff, I betcha.

OAV is an acronym for "Original Animated Video" or something. It refers to a direct to video release. That doesn't have the same stigma in Japan as it does here; it's pretty common for studios to do OAV releases of things that were either too short or too high-budget to do as a tv series, but too long or not perceivedly popular enough to receive a theatrical release.

The tv series is out in the states under the name Rorouni Kenshin (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...v=glance&s=dvd) and the OAVs came out under the name "Samurai X", for some reason (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...v=glance&s=dvd)

I don't really /prefer/ the OAVs, as such; they're different and I'd watch either when I was in a specific mood for either. I think you'd probably get more out of the OAVs if you watched them after watching the series, but you'd probably enjoy them even if you didn't. It's really down to availability and temperament.

[Chang Style Novice]

jeez - the imdb and google have simultaneously waaaaay too much and waaaaay too little info on Kenshin. Is there a page you can recommend that makes sense of the chronology and different editions?

I have learned that it started as a comic/manga (I suppose many if not most anime do) and considering my comics-nutness, I wonder if maybe that would be the best place to start of all.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
jeez - the imdb and google have simultaneously waaaaay too much and waaaaay too little info on Kenshin. Is there a page you can recommend that makes sense of the chronology and different editions?

http://www.anipike.com is a good place to look for anime links. As for chronology and editions, I can give you that myself -

The tv series was released first. Next came the movie, which takes place during the run of the TV series. Next came the first to OAVs, Trust and Betrayal, which take place either 10 or 20 years before the TV series (I believe). Finally, there's the recent OAV Revelations, which takes place 20 or 30 years after the TV series.

I have learned that it started as a comic/manga (I suppose many if not most anime do) and considering my comics-nutness, I wonder if maybe that would be the best place to start of all.

Could be. I don't read manga at all, though, so once you venture into that realm you're beyond my ability to provide recommendations or advice.

[Chang Style Novice]

See, it sounds like it's getting back to something you said earlier about the tv series - it's long and doesn't end strongly. To my way of thinking, this is a nearly deadly flaw. Perhaps I've simply become spoiled by HBO's miniseries (Sopranos for sure, but lately especially The Wire), but I place a great value on strong dramatic structure. By planning a reasonable amount of story at a time, and creating arcs for all characters and pairing themes for ironic impact and all that snooty literary stuff, the creators of those series have come up with a structure that allows for both individual satisfaction on the particular episodes, and collective satisfaction viewing the season or series as a whole. The Wire, because it's so focussed by a single person's vision succeeds especially well in this respect.

Which I guess is my roundabout way of saying "I'm scared that if I try to watch all 90 someodd episodes of the Tenshin series, I'll end up seeing a lot of duds, and you've already allowed that there's no real payoff at the end. I think I better try watching the OAVs and movies. And then if they totally kick my ass, I'll check out the TV."

And furthermore, your candor about their differences and strengths has made this decision pretty easy. Thanks again.

PS - I think we should rename this "The Ultimate Threadjack Thread."

[Daredevil]

Originally posted by FatherDog


It's a very long series, though, and it suffers the common TV series affliction of not really having an /end/, as such; it just kind of peters out. I recommend watching up until the end of the Kyoto arc, at least, though.

I'll second that. I loved Kenshin (though the goofiness was sometimes too much, but there's so much else in the series), which is why I didn't have (much) difficulty going through all the episodes ... well, not ALL the episodes, since after the Kyoto arc, the series just totally seemed to lack any oomph to it. In my view, the end of the Kyoto arc is the end of the series.

The problem -- IMHO -- with the series is that it would be much better if condenced into a shorter series more tightly focused on the real drama. It suffers moderately from the villain of the week syndrome, but that's sort of fitting for the series in some way.

Despite all this : I'd recommend Kenshin to almost anyone.

As for other series, there's Ghost In The Shell : Stand Alone Complex, which is a series in the same vein as the animated movie Ghost In The Shell. That's pretty decent. Crime stories in a cyberpunk future with very nice action.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
See, it sounds like it's getting back to something you said earlier about the tv series - it's long and doesn't end strongly. To my way of thinking, this is a nearly deadly flaw.

Oh, that's simplicity in itself, then - watch the TV series till the end of the Kyoto arc, and then stop, and watch the OAVs. The end of the Kyoto arc is actually a pretty strong ending for the series, and the last set of OAVs (which is Reflections, not Revelations as I posted above.... too much brain-lube) ends the whole thing with finality.

Oh, and if you liked Ninja Scroll, you might check out Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. There've been two VHD movies, each from different plot arcs in the long-running manga; Bloodlust is the more recent, and is done by Studio Madhouse, which is the animation studio that did Ninja Scroll, with which Bloodlust shares many stylistic similarities. Also, there's a Ninja Scroll tv series that's currently being released; I saw the first four episodes at AnimeNext and found it pretty engaging.

To jump back to the subject of vampires, Hellsing is a very entertaining series, or at least I found it so. It's about the Hellsing organization, a semi-secret wing of the British government who exist to keep the supernatural in check. In addition to the paramilitary organization itself, they have a powerful vampire who works with them, largely because he's bored with existence and killing other monsters keeps him entertained. The series revolves primarily around his relationship with the organization's leader and with a newish recruit that he's 'adopted'. There's also some political tension between the organization (which is Protestant based) and agents of the Catholic church.

Noir is pretty entertaining, although I haven't finished watching the series so I can't give a full endorsement, since I don't know if the payoff to the whole conspiracy/mystery thing they've got going is in fact going to be worth it.

Boogiepop Phantom is very good, but it's the sort of thing that you have to sit down and watch mostly all together or within a short period of time, then give it a week or so and sit down and watch it again. (much like the Illuminatus! trilogy). It cuts back and forth chronologically a lot, and a lot of things tie in together in very subtle ways that only become apparent on a second viewing. It's a very serious anime that explores a lot of psychological themes about alienation and self-image.

PS - I think we should rename this "The Ultimate Threadjack Thread."

Hey, it keeps the thread on the main page, so people who haven't seen it yet can read back and decide if they have anything additional to contribute - it's not like the anime discussion prevents anyone from continuing to discuss jing. And it's more entertaining than a series of "ttt"

[Meat Shake]

Originally posted by EmptyCup
you know these are dark days for us all when the most active martial arts forum has a bunch of hardcore TMAs discussing japanese aniime in a jing thread...

heh...
Yup...

and on that note, Ninja scroll is fantastic, but the best plot in anime I have seen has got to be Akira... fantastic flick. Princess mononoke is actually a good movie too, as is grave of the fireflies.
Most Ive seen from Manga is pretty good, although some disturbingly violent.

[Chang Style Novice]

"Grave of the Fireflies" is the feel-good movie of the year - if watching a pair of pre-adolescent war orphans die of radiation poisoning and starvation makes you feel good, that is.

As I mentioned CSN+Takahata= wet sloppy anime love.

The only other Takahata I've seen is "War of the Tanuki" or something like that, and it rawks in a sometimes funny, sometimes extremely sad, sometimes unearthly sense of wonder way. If I didn't know, I'd never have guessed it's by the same cat that did "Grave of the Fireflies." On the other hand, I figure I could spot a Miyazaki flick a mile off, since his obsessions (flight, the inner strength of young parentless women, the ecology) come through so strongly in everything I've seen.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
"Grave of the Fireflies" is the feel-good movie of the year - if watching a pair of pre-adolescent war orphans die of radiation poisoning and starvation makes you feel good, that is.

One of the things that they have at most Cons is music video contests - people put together music videos out of clips from anime, either for dramatic or humorous effect.

A couple Katsucons ago, someone did one of Grave of the Fireflies set to "Dust in the Wind". I'm pretty sure it was a deliberate attempt to kill the audience.

One got entered at AnimeExpo this year that was GotF set to Sting's "Fragile". I haven't seen that one, and I think I'd rather not.

[SevenStar]

"you know these are dark days for us all when the most active martial arts forum has a bunch of hardcore TMAs discussing japanese aniime in a jing thread"


That should go in my sig.

[Unmatchable]

I heard Grave of the Fireflies is a good one.

[SevenStar]

what other forum were you posting on?

[Chang Style Novice]

I've been looking around, and I think it was the beatendownbyad1ckheadwithaskateboard.com forums.