Tan Tui- Is it a separate school of its own?

[NorthernShaolin]

mickey,

r. is right about Huo as a legend immediately after his death.

And about Robert Y's comment about Huo only in one fight and using Shuai Chiao as he cited from a book, I've read that particular document many years ago too. I've also read many other documents that RY perhaps does not have access to or is unaware of their existance that contains other figths that involved Huo. (RY stated earlier 'Chinese never did archive in the past.' is a general statement by him and is obviously not true. I elected like many others here not to challenge his statement because there is really no point in doing so because it is only an opinion and overall would not serve any positive purpose.)

Secondly, I've realized that RY has learnt 10 row and not 12 row Tan T'ui so I dropped the subject since I felt the discussion would not be productive. I respect his view point from the 10 row perspective.

Lastly, but I admit that this does not weight too much since it is second hand info but important never the less, is that many years ago I've had conversations from some of the original Jing Mo students who were classmates of Huo's son. They acknowledged that Huo did not know many sets and when he fought, he used Tan T'ui techniques.

[NorthernShaolin]

Anyway... as old as Tan T'ui is, it would not have lasted as along as it has just on the merits that it is a good set for basics. Sets and styles last the test of time for a reason and it is not because of the obvious, i.e., perceived basic techniques.

If people placed themselves in a situation that Tan T'ui was the only existing set available to them, I am confidenced that in time they will be able to see the real value and the hidden secrets of Tan T'ui and not just brush it off as a basic set.

[rik]

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other fights that involved Huo.
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NorthernShaolin,
My teacher mentioned this as well.


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'Chinese never did archive in the past.' is a general statement by him and is obviously not true.
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Our Shaolin tradition claims there were records
and this is in keeping with one of the characteristics of Chinese Buddhist monasticism.
r.

[mickey]

Hi Northern Shaolin,

I am in agreement with both of you. I understood your silence.

mickey

[count]

Can anyone provide a translation for the poems of Tan Tui? I started to discuss them with my teacher a couple of times, but it usually leads to more and harder practice. LOL! So I don't bring them up in class too often. Not that I don't prefer the harder practice, I'm just curious.

[NorthernShaolin]

count,

are you talking about 10 row or 12 row?

[count]

Originally posted by NorthernShaolin
count,

are you talking about 10 row or 12 row?

Well, I'm mainly interested in the 10 since that is what I still practice and am most interested in, but I have learned the 12 and I'm interested in that too. I was never told about poems for the 12 in the past since my Northern Shaolin teacher wasn't Chinese, but I constantly hear them related to the 10 where I am now. Just curious since I think they shed more light on the applications that could be added to this discussion.

[ngokfei]

Wow Great Thread. Go away for a couple of days and look...

Northernshaolin, you've already said what I've been thinking. Good thing I read all the responses 1st.

No 1 teacher knows it all. And students should get better then their teachers to prevent stagnation and give honors to their style.


Tan Tui is a legacy. If it was less then it wouldn't have so many descendents.

As I read some where, go something like this:

"If you breath now instead of later you have lost". I interpret it to mean one action/thought has many outcomes so one action in a "Form" can have many meanings/interpretations.

Great thread,

[NorthernShaolin]

count,

Here you go:

Poem for 10 Row Tan T'ui

Row one is oi hit the enemy as you hit with a whip

Row two is to buffet with both fist crossed

Row three is to knock the enemy's head

Row four is to bar the road with fist

Row five is to buffet and protect yourself with your arms

Row six is to hit with a single fist

Row seven is to hit with both fist

Row eight is to swing your fist sidewards or backwards

Row nine is to hold the fist together

Row ten is to kick with your foot as if your an arrow.

.

Poem for 12 row Tan T'ui

Row 1: Buffet forward with a single fist in advance position

Row 2: Hit the enemy with both fist cross

Row 3: Knock the enemy's head with your body turning backwards

Row 4: Buffet with your fist and kick the enemy with your foot

Row 5: Protect your head and hit the enemy's chest

Row 6: Buffet with both fist; prostratating the leg

Row 7: Hit the enemy's ear with one fist and kick him hard

Row 8: Protect your head and groin with the fist

Row 9: Hold the fist together and separate them

Row 10: Kick your enemy with the foot as you hit him with an arrow

Row 11: Buffet sidewards with a hook-fist

Row 12: Recover to the original position.


Sounds like it was composed more for route memory rather than for applications.

[count]

That's great, I have to save this. It's not as detailed as I thought but thanks so much!

[stimulant]

Thats very interesting count

From the Tan Tui I know (10)

I would guess by comparing them to the poem that numbers 3, 5 and possibly 10 are the same....but the rest would appear to be different....though obviously I would have to see them to compare.

[mickey]

Count,

Laurie Cahn of the WuTan did a very nice article for Karate/Kung fu Illustrated on the 10 Line Tan Tui that you practice. I think it, to some degree, offers the enrichment that you are looking for.

If she is still active and in this world try contacting her. She may have a longer version. Martial arts magazines often edit down submissions to fit space-- the results can be tragic.

mickey

[norther practitioner]

Again, many thanks NS.

[Lokhopkuen]

RE: GM Chan and Tam Tui

Has he ever taught it out?

mickey[/B]


Not sure Mickey. Northern Shaolin has a greater knowledge of styles and history so I would bow to his wisdom in this matter. However I was told the system actually had many forms beyond the popular 10-12 routines and that not many folk outside the system know much about it. I have never studied with Master Chan but my friend said their was/is an entire system of hand forms and related weapons sets practiced to this day in Shandong.

Then again I could have heard it wrong and I am just spreading misinformation.
Ahhh the internet forums. The wild west of of the bad quote, hehehehe!

Peace Bradda

[mickey]

Lokhopkuen,

Thank you for sharing. I find the Wah Lum people's absence on the present Tan Tui threads a little puzzling.

mickey