Fighting closed minded ignorance

[ShaolinTiger00]

lmao @ punching Carlos Machado while grappling!

stfu!

[Gangsterfist]

A while ago my sifu taught me a wing chun principal, whatever can be done with your hands, can be done with your feet as well. Tan da, Tan girk, pok da, pok girk, etc etc.

So then, could you do anything on the ground that you could do standing up?

I don't see why not. Train for it and I bet there are WCK applications that can be done while on the ground. Think of the immoveable elbow, finger jabs, palm strikes, punches, kicks, head buts, elbow, knees, etc etc. Now, I haven't trained a ton doing this, usually train some kind of wrestling on the ground, but I think that there would be some valid wing chun applications that can be done on the ground.

Now likewise there could be many applications from many different styles that could be modified somehow (or maybe not needing modification) to be applicable in ground fighting. When I was taking okinawan Karate, there were several motions on our forms that could be applied standing up and on the ground.

[Shadowboxer]

KF,

Try reading all the posts before responding. I said it was before I got there and that he was in the Armed forces and has traveled alot. So, it could have been while he was training out of the country. I said I wasn't sure. He mentioned it a while ago while we were working on the Dei Tong.

You're right BJJ is invincible and Machado can't be punched while grappling

What's the title of this thread?

[red5angel]

gangsterfist, you're right, but it's something the less coherent or less well practiced members of this forum seem to forget.

Of course things are different on the ground but you certainly do not have to be a grappling expert to fight on the ground. You DO need to understand its basic principles otherwise you are fighting in the dark.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Gangsterfist
A while ago my sifu taught me a wing chun principal, whatever can be done with your hands, can be done with your feet as well. Tan da, Tan girk, pok da, pok girk, etc etc.

So then, could you do anything on the ground that you could do standing up?

I don't see why not. Train for it and I bet there are WCK applications that can be done while on the ground. Think of the immoveable elbow, finger jabs, palm strikes, punches, kicks, head buts, elbow, knees, etc etc. Now, I haven't trained a ton doing this, usually train some kind of wrestling on the ground, but I think that there would be some valid wing chun applications that can be done on the ground.

Now likewise there could be many applications from many different styles that could be modified somehow (or maybe not needing modification) to be applicable in ground fighting. When I was taking okinawan Karate, there were several motions on our forms that could be applied standing up and on the ground.

whether or not your stuff could be used on the ground was never the issue of debate. The issue is that many people here think that you can take chin na, go to the ground, and then boom, instant ground grappling expertise in a box. It doesn't work that way. you will have to spend time on the ground figuring out how to make the techniques work, proper positioning, etc. However, doing such research is best done with the assistance of a grappler. Why? because he grapples constantly.

[Gangsterfist]

Sevenstar said: whether or not your stuff could be used on the ground was never the issue of debate. The issue is that many people here think that you can take chin na, go to the ground, and then boom, instant ground grappling expertise in a box. It doesn't work that way. you will have to spend time on the ground figuring out how to make the techniques work, proper positioning, etc. However, doing such research is best done with the assistance of a grappler. Why? because he grapples constantly.

I agree if you read my post it says I usually train some type of wrestling on the ground. Luckily for me 2 of my kung fu brothers wrestled all through highschool and one did some wrestling through college. So I am lucky to train with some ground fighters. The one who wrestled through college also did judo, and has like a brown belt or something of the like in it.

My point was there is ground fighting in your MA, it may not be obvious at first but a few things are probably there.

What I think you should train for is the fight against the untrained fighter. Someone who will tackle you get you on the ground and try to grapple you, but not like a grappler. Just like someone who is just going crazy on you. That IMO is harder to fight against than someone who has some training. Someone who just gets you on the ground and then climbs up you like some kind of monkey hitting you over and over again with no paticular technique.

In all honesty, how many people here have gotten into a real fight with other martial artists? Obviously there are circumstances like tournaments and the like where a real fight could break out. There is also full contact fighting, but you sign up for that kind of stuff, and there still are rules and regulations.

[ShaolinTiger00]

You're right BJJ is invincible and Machado can't be punched while grappling

Yeah that's pretty accurate. If you "punched" Carlos he'd probably take you to the point of breaking a limb or choking you out and stop. If you tried it again, He'd go past it.

lmao @ the mental image of MP chain punching the heavy bag in my basement last Sat night!


goofy WC'ers...

[Shadowboxer]

"pretty accurate"? Either it's invincible or it's not. Carlos would probably take one to the point of breaking a limb? Right, nobody else knows how to do that. Nobody else knows how to choke somebody out or get out of the mighty BJJ armbar


BTW, how many WC'ers have you touched hands with?

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Shadowboxer
You're right BJJ is invincible and Machado can't be punched while grappling

I'm not saying that. I am saying it is pretty improbable that he rolled and started throwing punches with a BJJ black belt without it becoming a vale tudo match. Maybe you can clarify the confusion. What exactly were your instructors words when he mentioned his sessions with the BJJ guys?

Originally posted by Shadowboxer
BTW, how many WC'ers have you touched hands with?

Many. That was my first MA.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Gangsterfist

What I think you should train for is the fight against the untrained fighter. Someone who will tackle you get you on the ground and try to grapple you, but not like a grappler.

yeah, I can see the value of that.

Just like someone who is just going crazy on you. That IMO is harder to fight against than someone who has some training. Someone who just gets you on the ground and then climbs up you like some kind of monkey hitting you over and over again with no paticular technique.

I disagree there. with the standup game, I can agree with that, because you can't control his limbs. On the ground, you can. it's not really any different as far as controlling the guy. It would actually be easier because an untrained fighter will merely flail and tire himself out.


In all honesty, how many people here have gotten into a real fight with other martial artists?

I have. Granted, it was back in high school, but it still happened. Most of the wrestlers I knew in HS were the first ones to try and fight someone. I've seen them get into many a fight. It can happen.