Tan Lan in Europe

[Mika]

I browsed through the threads and couldn't see one that would answer a question about Praying Mantis in Europe. If there was one and I missed it, I apologize.

So, simply, are there schools in Europe? Okay, of course there are, but can anyone give me any info on them?

Also, relatedly, various styles of Praying Mantis are not very familiar to me, so could anyone either give me a run-down or point me somewhere where I can learn more?

Thanks

Mika

PS. It was this clip on the main forum that got me a little curious:

Korean TJMHPM demo clip

http://www.mantismartialart.com/demofight-2.WMV

[mantis108]

Let's see. There's Lee Kam Wing having branches in England and Germany. There are TJPM and CCK TCPM folks in France. Hao family TJMHPM in Germany also. I believe Mike Martello (mainly 8 step PM) is in Belgium and holds workshop as far as Holland. Actually, I wouldn't mind going to Holland myself. I guess that's as close to finland as it can be? Actually you could get a hold of the back issue of Mantis Quarterly, there's some info on there about European Mantis styles.

The clip that you mention is great. It would be great to hear your insight about it.

Regards

Mantis108

[Mika]

Thank you kindly, mantis108

Okay, I will look into those schools.

Now, what are TJPM, CCK TCPM, and TJMHPM? Does the latter have other branches than the Hao family?

Also, if there is a site that would explore the history of Praying Mantis AND how various branches today take their place in regards to that history, I would gladly go there and learn more.

I am just trying to get the big picture first (I do that with everything).

The clip was excellent. Some Korean fighters?
Although it was "only" sparring, they showed some high skill there. Sure, the other guy was always in on it, but they were fast and unpredictable. If those guys aren't good ring fighters, I bet they could be.

Do want to learn more...

//mika

[Mika]

These, I suppose, are various branches of Praying Mantis.

Are there really that many or are some of these just school names? Is the list complete?

Would anyone care to comment on the list and the styles or schools?

And of course, if anyone has anything to add to mantis108's post in regards to school is Europe, I wouldn't mind that...

Thanks


1) Plum Blossom (Grand Ultimate) Praying Mantis

2) Six Harmonies Praying Mantis

3) Seven Star Praying Mantis

4) Eight Steps Praying Mantis

5) Grand Ultimate (HK branch) Praying Mantis

6) Secret Gates Praying Mantis

7) Ren Clan Seven Star Praying Mantis

8) Wah Lum Praying Mantis

9) Bamboo Forest Southern Praying Mantis

10) Zhou Clan Southern Praying Mantis

11) Zhu Clan Southern Praying Mantis

12) Iron Ox Southern Praying Mantis


//mika

[Mika]

Thanks

[mantis108]

You are most welcome, my friend. Glad to be of service.

First and foremost, the site (Hao Family Taiji Meihwa Tanglang in Hong Kong) that you got the Korean PM guys from is a great site that has IMHO the most comprehensive northern Mantis history and lineages as we know it. Unfortunately at this point it is only available in Chinese. Shifu Ilya Profatilov did a great article on Taiji Tanglang (Jiang Hualong-Song Zide lineage) History in English. He used to have some sites that have the information available as well.

Basically for northern PM system, you would be looking at 4 major branches - Taiji, Meihwa, Qixing, and Liuhe. There was confusion about Taiji and Meihwa. At one time, they were grouped together. Regardless of the differences between aiji and Meihwa, they both came from GM Liang Xuexiang (1810 - ? CE). In fact in the old days Tanglang is Tanglang. There was no designation whatsoever.

Personally, I believe the designations serve the purpose from a research angle of where did the lineage came from and how it has developed or matured. For example, Meihwa would suggest to me that the lineage at one point would have something to do with Jiang Hualong. So it is possible to find material or training methodology that is reminiscent of Jiang's teaching.

From these 4 main branches came the different styles (ie Hao family Taiji Meihwa Tanglang) and hybird styles.

There is a debate going on whether there is such a thing as Shaolin Tanglang which claims to be the oldest and the most direct teaching of the legendary Wang Lang, progenerator of All NPM. Having said that I believe Wang Lang's capacity was more of an honorary progenerator so that no one laying claim to being the SOLE inheritor of the system. Needless to say, this is pretty much not working as many styles of PM claim to have the one and only real deal. Personally, I find that's kind of non sense. But then it just me.

As you are a non PM person, you recognize the attributes of PM fighters (those on the clip). This goes to show that PM system and/or its styles is not something that's on the paper. It is alive in its actions. I applaud your effort in doing the research before committing to the system or style. But at the same time, a leap of faith would shorten the endless search. My advice to peopel is don't come and observe class; come and practice. Nothing beats the hands on experience in Kung Fu.

I would like to take this oppotunity to comment on the list that you provided, hope you don't mind.

<<<<1) Plum Blossom (Grand Ultimate) Praying Mantis>>>

"Meihwa"

This is of mostly Jiang Hualong, who was a student of GM Liang. There are Plum Blossom Throwing Hand which I believe derived from this lineage.

<<<2) Six Harmonies Praying Mantis >>>

"Liuhe"

I have limited understanding of this branch. So I reserve my comments on this.

3) Seven Star Praying Mantis

"Qixing"

I think Shifu Tunks, Sifu Cottrell, etc.. will be able to give you a better idea on this one.

In Europe, Lee Kam Wing is quite active. He is of HK branch GM Luo Guangyu - Chu Chi Men lineage. German Bailung here can give you a good idea of how things are like with GM LKW.

Personally, HK seven star could be a seperate style of PM on its own. Also I would go further as to say there could be a Jingwu Tanglang style based on GM LGY's teaching.

4) Eight Steps Praying Mantis

"Babu"

Quite popular in Taiwan and USA. It's related to Meihwa's Jiang Hualong.

5) Grand Ultimate (HK branch) Praying Mantis

"Taiji" (TJPM)

The HK branch of this is known as CCK TCPM which was taught by GM Chiu Chuk Kai.

Jiang Hualong-Song Zide's lienages from Shandong also is known as TJPM

6) Secret Gates Praying Mantis

"Mimen"

It is a term coined to the teaching Of Zhang Dekuei (sp?) who has TJPM roots. This is based in Taiwan. Tainan Mantis can help you with this definitely.

7) Ren Clan Seven Star Praying Mantis

I am not sure of this one.

8) Wah Lum Praying Mantis

This is one of the very interesting "development". I am of the opinion that this has something to do with Meihwa Shuai Shou Tanglang. But there are others here, who actually study the style, can help you with this.

Actually, I thing we could not miss out Taiwan's Shrfu Shr Zhengzhong. I believe it is semi offical that his branch is named Ponglai Wuji Tanglang. BTW, Ponglai stands for Taiwan.

those that followed are southern mantis. They are not the same system of Mantis as far as I know. There might be some remote possibilities that these are related to NPM as we know it. But that's an extreme long shot of my own speculations.

9) Bamboo Forest Southern Praying Mantis

10) Zhou Clan Southern Praying Mantis

11) Zhu Clan Southern Praying Mantis

12) Iron Ox Southern Praying Mantis

Hope this helps.

Mantis108

PS please feel free to visit my forum (link provided with my signature line below) or email me at sifu1@internorth.com

[B.Tunks]

Hi Mika,

There is superb Seven Star Mantis in Poland. Shifu Slawomir Milczarek is the highest level master of PRC Qixing Tanglang outside of China and is very knowledgeable and skillfull. His students are tough and there are many of them. These days they have a few schools around Poland in Warsaw, Bemowo and other places (you can see on their site, it is in the links section of my website).
You can also find the students of Zhong Lianbao in Germany, Italy and Spain. They are easy to find and there are websites such as Jorge Quade's. There is also lots of PRC Meihua/Taijimeihua Tanglang in Germany (Hamburg, Munster etc). You can find students of Ilya Profatilov in Russia.
In the U.K there is LKW Qixing and also a handfull of people who train and occasionally teach Taiwanese and mainland Tanglang Quan.

Good luck

B.T

[Mika]

Thanks guys!

Got more than I bargained for, didn't I?

Which is good. Now, if only some European students could share some experiences, I would be all set.

I would do my research in any case, but when we are talking about having to travel abroad, the meaning of some background information is stressed even more. Traveling to another country (the language of which I wouldn't speak, unless I went to visit the UK schools), being able to practice there, having a roof over my head, and feeding myself would be tasks that would require solid financial commitments. Adding the facts that I would have spend time away from my family and work to do this...it would be a huge undertaking, and I thus want to be sure I couldn't have made another decision. And I really couldn't afford to do it like a tourist, so finding a school that could see into the future with me and see what I could possibly offer, would be of great importance to me.

I will contact the Masters y'all mentioned. Thanks

And I already posted on your forum yesterday, mantis108. Hope you don't mind...

Another link that I found about branches (and which ones could possibly be found in Europe) is the Mantis cave (http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/). I am sure y'all know that one, though.

Thanks for the info

//mika

[German Bai Lung]

Hi Mika,

its not easy for you right now: you have to decide which style you want to learn in future, how far you can travel, how much money you could spend!

I think it would be the best, to first come to a conclusion about these points and then it´s more easier to choose where to go.

A good help will be to check out the pages and view the stuff there, like pics and videos.

Maybe it´s also possible for you, to go to the roots: china or Hong Kong and Taiwan is sometimes not more expensive than europe! check it out!

[keef321]

Mika,

I practice HK Seven Star mantis here in the UK via the LKW lineage. From my personal experience I find it to be an astetically pleasing yet an effective style at the same time! For me I have found the style to be a real challange to learn and it has taken a while for things to ingrain into me and become natural but after a while when the flavour of the style ingrains in a bit it is a great feeling.

We have people of differing shapes and sizes a short ass like me (5ft 5 & 10.5 stone) to much larger weight lifter body types and the style seems to have something to offer for all.

I think the main important thing is the sifu though not the style. The other thing is what you want from your training, some schools may focus on form collecting and forms competitions whilst others like ours concentrate less on the amount of forms but application of the form instead.

Another thing I have found is that even the same style can be taught completely differently by different sifu, each sifu putting there own stamp on the art, just like you will. I trained under the same lineage whilst visiting Germany and although the techniques were the same the way they were taught was totally different.

Hope this helps and good luck with your search.

Keef