Banned
That takedown defense video is cool. You have to move from your center or you will have either a collapsed knee or hip. Like this video sort of a little bit, even though the better internal guy is the bigger guy
http://www.brainsalad.com/mov/clip06.mov
Banned
Timing hasn't been an issue for me, but that may just be because we step into everything with the same basic shape ... just a little bit more knee here, or a little bit more elbow shielding there, ect.
The hardest part is actually training this at 100%, or lets' say 85-90& for sake of the forum, because when it connects, even with gear, it's pretty nasty. You have your entire body coming forward making contact with the other's upperchest/head focused on the knee.
Playing with some friends I've connected a few and we had to stop. And holding back of course leads to getting dumped. I've seen enough of it though to have confidence that it works and just continue to train the structure.
Furthr
That almost never works, IME. It does work on newbies.Its a cool little roll.
Face2Fist, I think I can speak for all of us when I say, "You're wrong." What will more than likely get them taken down is not the initial movement, which is more or less correct, it's the general lack of follow up. If you hit the guy, and he doesn't let go, he's still got your leg. Now, if he's just sitting there like a lump, then you're still good.
But, the minute I feel that wide stance come into place, and/or the knee start to pressure, I'm turning the corner or coming out the back door. If your hands are busy hitting me, they are NOT busy shutting down side movement. And at this point, getting your leg free and getting back to where you want to be is paramount.
In actuality, most people with some time in turn the corner as soon as they contact you, using your leg as a post to turn around. Turning the corner and getting to the side is the name of the game in takedowns. It's much easier...
Secondly, the general tack of the defenses being discussed are useful for the low single, are less useful for other penetration step/shooting style takedowns.
This is one reason why the sprawl is such a recommended tool for the arsenal. One answer for all the leg attacks and it allows you to maintain your feet, strip the opponent off and follow up strong.
Last edited by Merryprankster; 04-27-2004 at 01:10 PM.
"In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell
"Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli
"A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli
Right Hand Man
MP - how do you recommend countering that side ways movment when someone who knows what their doing makes contact? I know what your talking about because more often then not, taht is exactly why I get dumped. do you think there is an effective way to stop this without sprawling or going to the ground? Essentially how would you control the sides if I told you to win, you couldn't hit the ground?
_______________
I'd tell you to go to hell, but I work there and don't want to see you everyday.
Loud City
We aren't trained to hit, we are trained to use our hands and elbows to push down on the head and neck. Is that any better, or will it still get me pwnd?Originally posted by Merryprankster
If your hands are busy hitting me, they are NOT busy shutting down side movement. And at this point, getting your leg free and getting back to where you want to be is paramount.
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
Originally Posted by David Jamieson
Furthr
Red5,
You can sprawl without hitting the ground. This is the tactic I recommend. It's called a buck back. When you see the guy shooting get your hands or forearms on his shoulders and "ride" his momentum backwards. You will be in an EXCELLENT follow up position.
MK,
If you are just pressing on his head and neck, he'll post on his forehead and spin to turn the corner. i recommend a three quarter nelson.
"In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell
"Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli
"A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli
Loud City
Is a neck crank a suitable defense against a single-leg if they get the lift?
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
Banned
With a right lead:
Shoot right knee out and keep a strong posture, keep hands in center, elbows down.
Now, the right hand may or may not go out for a head shot but also to set up the back hand elbow strike that travels up the center, like an uppercut.
If the guy breaks to my right, that right lead elbow goes out to maintain contact as I also change.
If he breaks left, that left elbow can cause some major damage. It can also be over comminted and he can get around and suplex me.
This is fighting. Two people with things to do but who does the right thing at the right time and who changes better plus a little lucky gues work ... when both are equal. When not equal, the better guy can do almost anything and win.
Good thread.
Furthr
how are you doing this neck crank?
"In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell
"Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli
"A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli
Loud City
Grab the chin/jaw from underneath, grab the ear/hair from top and twist.Originally posted by Merryprankster
how are you doing this neck crank?
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
Punch Drunk Pedant
A good single leg has the guy's head on the inside, pressed against your body/thigh. Getting a grip like that and putting any sort of power into it == very, very low percentage.Originally posted by MasterKiller
Grab the chin/jaw from underneath, grab the ear/hair from top and twist.
"hey pal, you wanna do the dance of destruction with the belle of the ball, just say the word." -apoweyn
Loud City
Better to hook under the outside arm and try to break their balance?Originally posted by FatherDog
A good single leg has the guy's head on the inside, pressed against your body/thigh. Getting a grip like that and putting any sort of power into it == very, very low percentage.
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
Furthr
Well, even a high-crotch single (head on outside) is going to turn the corner fast. The issue is also one of balance disruption. He's going to be lifting driving and turning all at the same time. Leverage becomes a problem if you don't secure your base.
If you really like your defense, I really think you should try a three quarter nelson.
Put your inside hand on the guy's head, and get an over hook on his outside arm (the one outside your leg--lateral for you medical types) with your other arm. Snake your arm underneath his armpit and get hold of your own wrist. You can use this grip to tear his hold off your leg - you'll have to use your legs and hips in conjunction with this of course.
Keep the pressure on and follow up with knees and slamming his face into the ground with your bodyweight.
The difference here is that the overhook keeps him from turning the corner.
"In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell
"Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli
"A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli
Furthr
That's one way. You can also overhook putting pressure on the shoulder using what we call a wizzer grip (kinda what I described).Better to hook under the outside arm and try to break their balance?
The underhook will be HARD to get if they are in deep.
Bottom line- separate their head from your leg. The more distance you create there, the eaasier to get your leg out.
"In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell
"Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli
"A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli
Registered User
for a smaller guy like me bracing forward with a stance or knee, even if causing some damage to the shooter would probably still land me getting caught just by weight and momentum (assuming the shooter is bigger and/or heavier than me, which is most probable). So usually I sprawl, not only that but sprawling alone doesn't help me since alot of guys' arms often can still get a grip to my legs since I'm short, so I have to couple that with a strong crossface or wizzer. Pretty much stuff Kung Lek mentioned.
However with enough size or weight and some sense of balance and resistence I can see how a firm forward leg and anticipation can deny a shot since it would happen to me on occasion during bull in the ring and king of the ring drills.
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