Last Samurai continues...revised....

[MasterKiller]

If it were a book, filled with inaccuracies about Samurai culture, with no footnote saying "this is all crap for entertainment purposes", would you be pizzed after reading it? Would you dismiss it as trash fiction?

[red5angel]

That depends, did the book advertise itself as fiction or fact? Is it supposed to be educational?

If I were watching the history channel and I saw a film on the Samurai that was inaccurate, I could understand the disappointment, but for the love of god, Hollywood?!

[Chang Style Novice]

I don't agree that they are trying to educate, but they are trying to make money.

Red, you're starting to irk me a bit now. I agree with this quote completely. I've repeatedly said that the problem is that these kinds of movies are filled with signifiers that they are to be taken seriously, which distinguishes them from other movies which don't carry the same weight of pretension. You're not listening to what I'm saying here.

To sum up - they are trying to FEEL educational without actually BEING educational. Some (generally not very bright) people are fooled by this feeling and think they are getting educated. It's a sleazy marketing tactic that leads to a misinformed audience.

Yes, the audience is at fault for not being more critical. But the filmmakers share the blame for presenting themselves as responsible and trustworthy.

[red5angel]

CSN, I understand exactly what you are saying and that is what I am disagreeing with. I don't believe that they ARE trying to "feel" EDUCATIONAL. I believe that they aren't trying to feel educational, although they may try to get you to think, it's not usually about the cultures or whatnot but about the poeples motivation.

[Chang Style Novice]

Well, in that case we can agree to disagree. It seemed we were talking past each other for a while there, and that just drives me nuts.

Of course, I'm still right and you're still wrong!

[red5angel]

LOL! or so hollywood, maybe I'll make a movie about this....

[rubthebuddha]

in the case of the last samurai, i'll have to go with CSN on this one, at least if you're speaking in regard to the dvd. the dvd has a special feature with noted asian culture and history expert tom cruise speaking, with the history channel logo in the background, actually explaining a bit about japanese history and the nature of samurai. that right there is reason enough to get the impression that the last samurai was assuming an air of authenticity.

in the case of mk and csn, i'm pretty sure () they're smArt enough to know that the last samurai has ginormous gaps and inaccuracies. however, i think they're pleading on behalf of the lowest common denominator -- the lowest average intelligence -- of the film's potential audience that won't realize these inaccuracies:

texans and oklahomans.

[red5angel]

then in the case of the DVD I could agree. Is Tom Cruise that far off? Maybe his sources were bad. Maybe those crazy asians only gave him a little bit of the truth and not the whole thing!

I do not argue for the lowest common denominator, if they can't figure it out for themselves I'm certainly not going to get upset about it.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
however, i think they're pleading on behalf of the lowest common denominator -- the lowest average intelligence -- of the film's potential audience that won't realize these inaccuracies:

texans and oklahomans.

OKlahomans only know one thing: Texas has hotter chicks, and most of them play football for UT.

[Chang Style Novice]

In semi-related news...

[Christopher M]

While we're on the subject, I found the depiction of the petit objet a in Cremaster III to be totally unrealistic. First of all, petit objet a results from the Other's lack, apropos the hytericizing gaze - not jouissance, which is signifier for the Real!!!

But I guess red5angel is right... I mean, if you're too stupid to even figure that out, you deserve to lie in the bed you made.

[The Willow Sword]

So up in arms about this movie and its apparent "inconsistancies" and whatever else one may deem "unrealistic" about this movie.

I happened to LIKE this Movie Alot,,,,and i guess that i am one of the people "Intelligent" enough to know that this movie is not based on any true event. it may reflect some actual events in the political history of japan and america at the time but the fact still remains that THIS IS ONLY A MOVIE. Jesus i swear you nellies are like a sewing circle of old ladies with too much make up,,perfume,,and hairspray and time on your hands to. LOLOL.

My take on the inconsistancies of the film that i thought was "corny", but that did not take away from my like of the movie, was that Tom Cruise became a master swordsman in one season.
however,,,okay so are we going to slow the movie down for everyones opinion of what is "accurate" we gonna put 20 years of sword play in to two and a half hours of movie reel time? uhhhh NO. this is not a Peter Jackson film .

the other aspect that i found kind of corny is that he was the only survivor in a barrage of Gatlin gun fire. he would have been turned in to swiss cheese as well and i probably would have liked the film even better if he died in it and there was an honoring of him by both sides,,but HEY that is my own OBJECTIVE Critique of the film.

As far as this film having racist under tones?,,,BS.

heheh funny comments also about this being the Japanese "dances with wolves" if anyone had bothered to see the full directors version of Dances with wolves(which made the 3 hour film a 4 1/2 hour film,,there would have been some things that would have made sense in that film and made it a more well recieved picture) but that is how hollywood works these days,,they release a partial version of the film and then , for money and marketing reasons they release the "directors cut" which is the the way the film was supposed to be viewed in the first place (ie: the LOTR series.) i can only assume that there will be a directors version of "last samurai" to come out in the fall or whenever that will fill thegaps and holes.

PEACE,,,TWS

[Tit Sa]

Movies such as these have more influence on attitude than some of you probably would think.

Every corporation in the world knows the power of advertising. For example, for almost a century? corporations have taught Americans it is cool to smoke cigarettes. In the last 30 or so years we all know the adverse health that comes from smoking. Yet people still smoke! and I am not talking about older addicted generations, young people too. As a matter of fact woman smokers has been on the rise.

And that is just corporations, government knows how easily and, well,.. for lack of a better word how stupid the general population is. Anyone heard about the Brookings Report during our early days of space exploration.

When people watch hrs. and hrs. of movies and advertisement dipicting certain people acting in certain ways, what will you think will happen. We all like to think we are the smart ones who can't be influenced, but polls have been conducted before we all heard the results. I don't have specifics but I am sure you can find them pretty easily on the net.

For you Bruce Lee fans can explain better, but it was only 30 years ago since he got turned down for Kwai Chang Caine instead they chose Carradine, b/c Bruce looks too Chinese! and didn't act like the castrated fortune cookie they wanted. Do you think these same people somehow just magically changed their views becasue of a couple of laws that passed?

To give you some of my personal experience I still had some people who think asians are all good in math, and they would say that to me.

[red5angel]

This reminds me of a conversation I had a year ago with a vietnamese freind of mine. See, he fels asians are smarter then just about everyone else, I should say Asian men. Anyway, apparently it goes beyond that cause we were talking about the martial arts, and he says to me "I shoud get into that, I'd be good at it." I asked him why he thought he would be good at it, and he replied "Cause I'm asian, it's in my blood." that answer is verbatim what he said to me. the conversation went ****her, but I'm not sure I convinced him that's an inaccurate way of looking at the world.

[Tit Sa]

Well he is just as stupid as the people who made Kungfu, and Last Samurai.

Single personal experiences don't really mean much in this context. I just thought I add in my 2cent. What does matter is a consistent pattern.