Emei/Omei Region

[desertwingchun2]

Originally posted by Jim Roselando
Hello all, Investigating the breathing patterns!

Via video??? I finished watching some vid clips on the web of Guloo Village Wing Chun. IMO, breathwork in this system is non-existent. Know why??? Because its a video !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Jim Roselando

First! (and most important in my eyes) Look at the chest! Flat chest or pressing the chest forward is a clear indicator of ones body. A flat chest of forward aligned structure with chest sticking out goes against the Rou Jing way. Sticking the chest out or having a flat chest causes the body to work in a different method. Classical info./WCK info./Zhuang info. all state: Sou Hung (Hollow the Chest). This allows nature to do its thing via the soft based way.

Jim, ever hear Yuhn Ying in relation to the system you call Whitebrow?? Im assuming you meant Pak Mei/White Eyebrow kung fu. Yuhn Ying translates to Round Shape. Concaved chest and all.


What Zhuang info???? When will you define Zhuang sytems?? We don't know which Zhuang you're talking about??? How does this miscellaneous info change 300 years of history???

Originally posted by Jim Roselando

Go watch Mantis/Bak Mei/Okinawan arts etc.. Thats easy to see! WCK breathing is more in tune with Taiji type breathing. Its designed to instill Movement in Stillness! Nothing is better or worst. Just different!

Tai Gik????? Now Wing Chun Kuen is from Tai Gik ???? All of Tai Gik or just whichever family the pupeteer has you say??

Originally posted by Jim Roselando

Its either hard or soft first. Even some of the hard bow arts have some sort breathing in the later stages but examine the body mechinics and ways of their breath. its not difficult!


Regards,

Instead of looking as hard/soft, ask yourself how does your system go from emptiness to form back to emptiness?? Or is your system vice versa???

-David

[Phenix]

one asked. "have you seen a white cup or a black cup? "

the other reply "ask yourself how does it go from emptiness to form back to emptiness"( instead of I Dont know but I will not admit I dont know)


and when others point this out.


the anger run amok and all sort of words to attack go from emptiness to form.... after that explosion. the form goes back to emptiness. heheheh

what doesnt go from emptiness to form back to emptiness? not a thing.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Nick Forrer



FYI, a friend of mine has a video of a closed door wing chun conference in mainland china in the mid 90s. One of the guys demonstrating had a form which mixed together actions from the three hand forms plus the dummy form as well i.e. it had the zigzagging footwork and po pai jeung (double inline palms).

.

sound like you see some Yik Kam's relatives with ... steps footwork.....

[desertwingchun2]

Originally posted by Phenis
one asked. "have you seen a white cup or a black cup? "

the other reply "ask yourself how does it go from emptiness to form back to emptiness"( instead of I Dont know but I will not admit I dont know)


and when others point this out.


the anger run amok and all sort of words to attack go from emptiness to form.... after that explosion. the form goes back to emptiness. heheheh

what doesnt go from emptiness to form back to emptiness? not a thing.

With the skin gone where can the hair adhere?

[PaulH]

"the anger run amok and all sort of words to attack go from emptiness to form.... after that explosion. the form goes back to emptiness. heheheh

what doesnt go from emptiness to form back to emptiness? not a thing."


While you may have lost your body scan secret, I see you haven't lost your humor, Hendrik. =)

P.S. Jim, all your beans are quite tasty so far from Bean town! Keep on spilling a few here and now! Thanks!

[desertwingchun2]

Originally posted by Jim Roselando
Hello,


This topic will be an off-shoot of a discussion regarding Snake Body going on in the Weng Chun Sup Yat thread!


So, there are some who do not want to believe there is a possible connection with Emei and Wing Chun. This info. is not designed to try and persuade anyone but give a bit of info. I found when I started to look into that theory and why I think its more likely!

A brief synopsis ....

Originally posted by Jim Roselando

I started to look into different art that show roots in that region. After that I looked into their engine/details. We can use a few systems or methods as examples;

Ba Gwa: This art often claims roots in Emei region and various lineages state different descriptions regarding the body/engine! You can hear the body/engine often described as Snake Body by Park Bok Nam and other groups. You can hear the body/engine descrbed to as Swimming Body by the Gao people. You can hear the body/engine described to as Swimming Dragon by other groups! All coming from Emei!

You claim this as a "connection" because it stresses Emei BaGua's Swimming Body and how it's a conection to Wing Chun. Here's information on Emei Bagua. Note that You Shen Baguazhang/Swimming Body Eight Change Palm is a form not a "body/engine"!!

Here's a quote from that website - "Many but not all of the systems of Baguazhang practiced on Mount Emei and there are numerous forms of the art, appear to have stemmed from Yin Fu a famous disciple of Dong Hai-Chuan others using the name Baguazhang are quite different. Among the Baguazhang forms found in the Emei Wushu portfolio of martial art are: .... "

Dong Hai-Chuan - Born:1875 Died:1908. How is it possible an art he created influenced Wing Chun if he wasn't born until 1875????

Originally posted by Jim Roselando

Zhuang: Yee Chuan grandmaster Wang Xiang Zhai (while not emei but a good connection) states: The body is like a swimming Dragon and if Miao Shun own knowledge was Emei Zhuang then thats a good sign!

"Zhuang" in this example means "Post" or "Structure". The term Zhuang has no independant connection to Yi Chuan. For information on Yi Chuan click Here

Zhan Zhuang/Jam Jong is a qi gong exercise. For information on Zhan Zhuang click HERE

Originally posted by Jim Roselando

Yuen Kay San lineage: Although not claiming to be an Emei based art we can see in some writing that they also state; Swimming Dragon is memory serves me correctly and Rene can probally help me out if I am wrong!

1. Not Emei based. 2. any connection of Wing Chun from Wong Wah Bo to Emei Bagua Swimming Body Form cannot exist because the form is simply too recent a creation !!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Jim Roselando

So, if Miao Shun was the person who combined his own knowledge (which could be Emei Zhuang as Hendrik claims and as the Yuen Kay San lineage claim minus the Emei info and replace it with his own knowledge)

What Emei Zhaung??? Emei Zhan Zhuang Qi Gong/Standing Post Qi Work done by people on Emei??? You Shen Baguazhang/Swimming Body form Eight Change Palm ?? What is your definition of Zhuang Arts???

Originally posted by Jim Roselando

Thoughts?

What does this have to do with Wing Chun Kuen???


-David

[Jim Roselando]

Hey Paul!


P.S. Jim, all your beans are quite tasty so far from Bean town! Keep on spilling a few here and now! Thanks!


Glad you find it interesting!

Boston Baked Beans are not for everyone! Some like other beans but sometimes cant understand that a Baked Bean looks like a Goya Bean but taste totally different! Its almost funny that some of the Goya Bean lovers are not even reading/understanding whats written on this Boston Bean can!


Going away for the weekend! Will continue on Monday if you and others want me to?


Regards,

[PaulH]

Yo Jimbo,

I like this summary of a Samurai classic: "A crafty ronin comes to a town divided by two criminal gangs and decides to play them against each other to free the town. " And some interesting dialogues: "You don't mind if I kill all of you?" "What? Kill me if you can!" "It'll hurt."

Life is stranger the fiction. WingChun town will never be the same when you're through! =)

[canglong]

Desertwingchun2,
All your post have been well thought out David that last one in particular was an excellent read and nice links thanks since Jim will not say it I'll do it for him
I notice that this thread has picked up in views since you joined in the dialogue and even though Jim side skirts your post all the people viewing this thread can still learn even if Jim refuses too keep your post coming for the good of the viewing audience. Jim your unwillingness or inability to address David's points speaks volumes in itself as to the sincerity behind the origins of this thread.

[Jim Roselando]

ROFLMAO

Those who read with an open mind understand what is being written! Those who read without an open mind do not!

Davids posts only show his understanding what has been written! Your appreciation of his writing also shows how you understand what has been written.

I have recieved e-mails from people stating: Why bother as they dont get what you write?

Its all done because I love this art!

Nothing more/Nothing less!


Back to ingoring the trolls!

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


Before heading out for the weekend I will make one more quicky post!

With regards to Sow Hung a thought was brought up to compare it to the Hum Hung of Bak Mei! Attached is a photo of Bak Mei students practicing in a field.

Note the Hum Hung & body structure and compare for yourself!


Regards,

[canglong]

posted by Jim Roselando
Back to ingoring the trolls!

If that answers David's post for you Jim run with it but you are not the only one getting emails saying why bother and just like your last post every time you post and don't reply to David's points you lose credibility within yourself forget all the paople viewing this thread and search within name calling joking with Paul emailing hendrik phone calls to rene ritchie none of that can hide the fact that David made excellent points to which you appear to be unable to respond and that my friend is a fact!

[duende]

At least I didn't get called a troll.... I was just ignored.

Well, can someone answer this simple question???

How did Wong Wa Bou's junior Yik Kam teach him these White Crane body mechanic engines??

And where does Choi Li Fut come in... Obviously it comes in somewhere as it's present in Yik Kam's legacy. Does this mean that maybe CLF is actually the true WC origin source???

Jim.. you'd better get your CLF pictures out and a magnifying glass! Or better yet... get a bigger computer monitor so you can really get down to the details!

[canglong]

duende,
Keep making sense and asking poingnant questions and I have no doubt you too will be called a troll sooner or later hahahahaha
good luck in your quest my friend

[duende]

Thanks Tony...

And when that moment comes we should start a band mannn!!

Later
Alex