The demise of Taiijquan

[Fu-Pow]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Everyone I speak to doing true fajing says they feel internally and externally refreshed and charged by the experience. It doesn't seem like anything is being drained.
[/quote]

I bet they feel charged. Feels good to get the chi out of the body as opposed to learning how to recirculate it around.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I would claim the exact opposite. The 'old masters' all learned their art to defend themselves [/quote]

True, but combat was not the only emphasis. One version of the history states that these excercises started out as health building excercises before it evolved into martial application.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> There are also not roving bands of SAS beating people up. But there are plenty of cases of SAS using their combat training in appropriate real or training situations. As with taiji practitioners.

[/quote]

Sorry, I don't know what SAS stands for??????


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I've been told you should never go into competitive push hands. It's not a competition, it's a training tool.
[/quote]

Let me clarify. Not "push hand competitions". I mean "Competitive push hands." That is , trying to upset the balance of the other person before understanding the internal mechanism of Taiji and learning the other jings (eg listening).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Everyone who's touched hands with them.

[/quote]

If they don't touch hands then how do you know? This is a circular argument.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Taiji is a martial art.

[/quote]

Taiji, like all Chinese martial arts is a way to strengthen and protect the body. Its martial aspect is just an outgrowth of this mentality that has been honed and sytematized.


Peace... :D

Fu-Pow



"Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

-Lee Koon Hung,
CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

[Kune]

**** straight gary. Tai Chi aint what it used to be back in the day. I believe that 90% if not more, of "True" taichi is lost or kept secretly underground. Most of the knowledge was probably lost to the communist, and the RedGuard, who would were on a mission to kill all scholars and kungfu masters on a large scale. So they whipped out their guns and went out by platoons to massacre anyone who knew kungfu, and especially kill the masters. As a result, walking libraries of kungfu knowledge and experience GONE, all killed. Lots of knowledge was lost forever. So say.. if a master is killed, and his top students, and all that is left is a junior, but that junior attempts to keep his masters art alive, you get a watered down version of that art because that dood will only pass down what he knows. So I guess the few that survived all this would probably become secretive about kungfu.

I am also pretty **** sure Tai Chi and the only system of kungfu that has suffered in this same way... ;(

[EARTH DRAGON]

Agian I say it's becuase their are no true tai chi chuan masters left please read my last post. There is a man in beijing who is a true Tai Chi master his name is Shu Ming.... ask any chinese sifu from the mainland they will know his name! It is said he is impossilbe to touch for his chi is like that of a force field "impervious" and impossible to penetrate. I have a 8mm tape of him shooting chi trough 5 people and knocking them to the ground with his palm.... mind you he is not touching them in any way........ thats Tai Chi Chuan

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[Rory]

yes sadly theres only about 5% of people who really practice the traditional tai chi chaun. Sadly its become a "art of health". but hopefully the few real practioniners can reverse that

[brassmonkey]

I'm not worried about the state of Tai Chi Chuan in the U.S. being low as I understand it its low generally everywhere even in China. This is probably due to TCC being such a subtle art few attain true skill. Its my opinion there are some good teachers around and if your serious maybe you'll have to travel. The only thing I find depressing about the state of Tai Chi Chuan is this thread tho.

[Fish of Fury]

Fu-Pow
SAS = Special Air Service
British elite commandos.there is NO better SpecOps force anywhere. their ****s don't stink and the sun shines out of their collective rectums.
(there's also an SAS in australia)

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I'm just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!"

[TaoBoxer]

terrorists?

Sorry, I'm irish...couldn't help it.

[bamboo_ leaf]

“The martial ability I have seen displayed in 98% of the Tajiquan people throughout the USA simply deserves to be laughed at. I am not trying to down play the healing benefits in any way, but that is only part of it. It is so common for taijiquan practitioners to take up some other art(common combo=hung-gar/taiji) to learn to defend themselves, when in reality, if one learns to use taijiquan correctly they would destroy a hung-gar person...[lol-insert sh storm here](I am speaking from experience!!)
Well I hope this starts some intelligent conversation and not ego driven rantings!!!
-and so endeth the sermon
Gary”


So speaking from “experience” are you helping to disprove what you see in others?
Dose it matter what or why other people practice?
Why do so many talk only of fa-jing and not sticking power, is this to basic?

I never read: something like the other fell down because I lead him to emptiness or he couldn’t push me because he couldn’t find a place to push.
I always read: I pushed him out using fa-jing or he couldn’t push me over because my root was so strong.
These type of statments seem to have a lot to do with the self, and not the other is this the idea of TC?

Why is that?

enjoy life

bamboo leaf

[Braden]

Mr. Leaf: "something like the other fell down because I lead him to emptiness or he couldn’t push me because he couldn’t find a place to push."

That's what I was trying to get at with the "cross-stepping post" exercise from bagua, which does exactly this, and I think Gary is familiar with.

I understand his disapproval of yielding in the large scale, but this kind of subtle yielding that creates an attack - I've found to be very effective. In cross-stepping post, as you yield/lead the attack, you also use it's energy to "push you into posture" (notably - the "guard" posture from bagua), which conveniently situated dragon palms and elbows next to your opponent's temple and mastoid. So not only have you stolen his balance (so dramatically that I've had people literally fall when trying to get me, and I'm not even any good at it!), but you've also simultaneously given them a firm whacking.

Surely that's good stuff.

[PlasticSquirrel]

how many of us know this? how many times have topics come up like this? this is far too childish for people like us. i have seen far too many.

we all know what sort of taiji dancers are around, and why let that bother us if there is nothing that we can do but reaffirm our distancing from them? i think that affirmation is all too worn out, though, and most everyone here should know this.

i view the topics on this forum because i want to learn a little more from other perspectives and learn a bit about other styles. however theoretical our discussions get, i trust that the other posters will be practicing as much as they should be and in the right way.

so, why are posts like this here? we can't learn anything from them. we already know that most people that practice taijiquan in the u.s. suck. get over it.

p.s. i wouldn't go far enough to say that 98% of the people suck, though. think of some of the guys we have here in the u.s. like ren guang-yi and george xu. there are actually quite a few good guys here in the u.s.

[Braden]

Your post on a thread saying that posts on the thread are stupid and a waste of time is convincing.

[Nexus]

If you wan't to practice taiji, practice taiji. If you don't become a master because you have been practicing watered-down taiji for 20 years and your true skills are equivalent to a 8 year old in kempo at least you kept yourself busy for the 20 years instead of sitting on the couch watching tv smoking cigarettes, drinking beer and eating bag after bag of potato chips.

Then again, you might develop more qi that way then with the taiji dance half the "park-taiji" people do.

Do what feels right, not what looks right.

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

[PlasticSquirrel]

i am not saying that no one should post on this topic. i am saying that the topic is one that we all have seen too many times. by post i meant topic, and that was what was implied by my use of the word.

i posted on this thread because i did not want to make another topic and then try to connect it with this thread. if you know a better way to address the people posting on this thread, then i would like to hear about it.

people comment a bit on the topic, and then others comment on that person's comments, and we have sub-threads, because there is not much of anything interesting in the main topic. what did he expect us to respond with? "oh, really? jesus f*cking christ i didn't know that!"

[gazza99]

Hello, been gone awhile, havent had a chance to respond to some posts,
Fu-pow: Angry? When did I state that I used any sort of anger? Being more Yang, or using the reptilian brain mode is NOT anger. You have not told me anything I didnt know, but thanks anyway!
As to the yeilding I would refer to shogs post, thanks for your input shog! Also I would much rather Blend with the opponents energy than to yeild, perhaps it is only rhetoric? Who knows? Its very difficult to debate such an issue over the net.
Bamboo leaf you stated :
"So speaking from “experience” are you helping to disprove what you see in others?
Dose it matter what or why other people practice?
Why do so many talk only of fa-jing and not sticking power, is this to basic?"
-disprove? Only stating a sad fact that taijiquan done properly needs no supplement art for self-defense. If this disproves someones idea of taiji then so be it.
Yes it does matter what others practice, it is common for someone to think they are learning a skill to defend themselves, when they are learning crap. My point is, that perhaps we should stop being so diplomatic towards these people and what they practice, then maybe not so many will believe the hype.
How others represent my art also directly affects the way others percieve me. So yes it directly affects me, and any other taiji practicioner that knows the true nature of their art.
Braden,
yes I am familiar with the cross stepping post, and subtle yeilding can be usefull, it just depends on what type of technique you are talking about. Like I said its difficult to debate such concepts, when many people define things differently.
Gary

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com