Is it a need of a different SLT and SNT set within a system?
if yes, why is it?
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim?
Senior Member
Is it a need of a different SLT and SNT set within a system?
if yes, why is it?
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim?
Registered User
That's not the whole story though. From what I've read on these forums, some lineages have a Siu Lien Tau set, where 'lien' means training, not 'thought'. So the pronunication of 'thought' as Nim or Lim is an issue that does not apply.Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim?
Whether the actual content of the SNT or SLT sets is substantively different is another question I am not qualified to answer.
Slow & Steady
Yes, I understand this is true when referring to the Little Idea set in the Cantonese dialect. Literati use the "n" sound, the common vernacular has more of an "l" sound.Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim?
Matters become more confused when one or the other Romanization is used in an attempt to denotate a different set (Little First Training??). As I have heard, the sound is similar for both phrases, though the representative characters differ.
Regards,
- kj
Banned
Hendrik,
Leave the HFY guys alone. They have their dogma, you have yours. No amount of argument, no amount of discussion, no "logic", etc. can or will settle whether a certain training method is useful or not, or is more effective or not. That can only be determined by examining the *results* that the training method in question produces (there is, btw, a lot of evidence out there about training methods). If anyone believes their training methods are "superior" then they should be able to show the "superior" results (fighting skills) produced. If they can, then their view should be taken seriously; if they can't, they are just blowing smoke.
Terence
Registered User
KJ sez:
Yes, I understand this is true when referring to the Little Idea set in the Cantonese dialect. Literati use the "n" sound, the common vernacular has more of an "l" sound
---------------------------------------------------------------
Thus I have heard too-KJ.
Lots of different intonations varying with region and class.
((Generally for me)- down with the literati and snobbery.
The literati sold the rebels out in the pacification of the south(Chima)
Senior Member
Originally posted by t_niehoff
Hendrik,
1, Leave the HFY guys alone. They have their dogma, you have yours.
2, No amount of argument, no amount of discussion, no "logic", etc. can or will settle whether a certain training method is useful or not, or is more effective or not.
That can only be determined by examining the *results* that the training method in question produces (there is, btw, a lot of evidence out there about training methods). If anyone believes their training methods are "superior" then they should be able to show the "superior" results (fighting skills) produced. If they can, then their view should be taken seriously; if they can't, they are just blowing smoke.
Terence
1, Thanks for the speculation.
however, it will be appreciated to keep technical question technical. nothing more nothing less. please, we want to keep out of personal "mind reading" about others based one's own thought.
2, the topic of discussion is ---- Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set?
please do not divert into other stuffs.
If the Dogma of the PIKACHU is about
1, bring up technical questions,
2, allow everyone to express thier view/reason on the topic,
3 searching and finding out what happen in every Localization Evolution.
then, let that be the Happy PIKACHU DOGMA.
Last edited by yellowpikachu; 09-28-2004 at 07:52 AM.
Registered User
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Is it a need of a different SLT and SNT set within a system?
if yes, why is it?
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim?Obviously you've just read parts of MKF, or you wouldn't be posting all these rather transparent questions. If you don't want your "mind read", then perhaps you should start posting what you actually intend instead of these half-witted attempts at backhanded insults.Originally posted by yellowpikachu
1, Thanks for the speculation.
however, it will be appreciated to keep technical question technical. nothing more nothing less. please, we want to keep out of personal "mind reading" about others based one's own thought.
2, the topic of discussion is ---- Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set?
please do not divert into other stuffs.
If the Dogma of the PIKACHU is about
1, bring up technical questions,
2, allow everyone to express thier view/reason on the topic,
3 searching and finding out what happen in every Localization Evolution.
then, let that be the Happy PIKACHU DOGMA.
What you consider Dogma, others more accurately consider a futile obsession.
1. Bring up technical questions??? As you already have your answers... all these posts of yours are just more examples of your bad breath.
2. Allow??? If this was true then you wouldn't have the reactionary nature that spurns through the vast majority of your posts.
3. Yep, only you have the true WC right Hendikk?? Why don't you tell us about your localized evolution??? You won't will you, and that's because you believe your White Crane Wing Chun is the true WC.
That's fine... Believe what you want... but be honest about it. It's due time you stop attacking others for things that you, yourself are guilty of.
Question?
Why are you so threatened that you are compelled to post over and over again these silly examples of your insecurity???
Answer.
Because the Pikachu is yellow.
Senior Member
Originally posted by duende
Obviously you've just read parts of MKF, or you wouldn't be posting all these rather transparent questions. If you don't want your "mind read", then perhaps you should start posting what you actually intend instead of these half-witted attempts at backhanded insults.
What you consider Dogma, others more accurately consider a futile obsession.
1. Bring up technical questions??? As you already have your answers... all these posts of yours are just more examples of your bad breath.
2. Allow??? If this was true then you wouldn't have the reactionary nature that spurns through the vast majority of your posts.
3. Yep, only you have the true WC right Hendikk?? Why don't you tell us about your localized evolution??? You won't will you, and that's because you believe your White Crane Wing Chun is the true WC.
That's fine... Believe what you want... but be honest about it. It's due time you stop attacking others for things that you, yourself are guilty of.
Question?
Why are you so threatened that you are compelled to post over and over again these silly examples of your insecurity???
Answer.
Because the Pikachu is yellow.
isnt it amazing that one thought such as
Leave the HFY guys alone. They have their dogma, you have yours.
based on one's "thinker's thought pattern" give raise to the post above?
what can we learn from this?
exactly as what the tolle said in his book power of Now or the Zen's teaching.
When one mistaken the Thinker as oneself and take one's speculating Thoughts as reality representing others, one then lives in one's thought which has little todo with what in reality.
when mind move, thought is constructed. suffering starts if un aware of...
Thus one needs Siu Niem Tau or the little training to AWARE the mind has moved. So one doesnt keep thinking and take what one think is real, but can aware of one's thinking is just a thought what one think, not more and not less.
Last edited by yellowpikachu; 09-28-2004 at 09:10 AM.
Registered User
I think I've posted this before, but I'll do so once more.Originally posted by kj
Yes, I understand this is true when referring to the Little Idea set in the Cantonese dialect. Literati use the "n" sound, the common vernacular has more of an "l" sound.
The initial 'N' in 'Nim' is the 'original' Cantonese sound. However, there has been a linguistic trend which people call 'lazy sounds' where this initial 'N' is replaced by an 'L'.
Other occurences include:
Nam/Lam - South (Nam Kuen = Southern Fist)
Nam/Lam - Male
Noi/Loi - Female
Neen/Leen - Year
(NOTE: Not very proper romanisation)
In HK and Guangdong this is a continuing trend, but I'm not aware that it started out as a means of distinguishing class/education.
From personal observation, HK villagers still tend to use the initial 'N', as well as overseas Chinese who emigrated before the 80-90's. However, due to the ready availability of HK entertainment media in the overseas Chinese communities, more and more people are using the initial 'L'.
Last edited by CFT; 09-28-2004 at 09:28 AM.
Senior Member
CFT,
GREAT post!
Keep up the great job!
Registered User
Thanks CFT- for the devlopment of the lazy sound etc and the
n-l variance.
Interestngly in the evolution of the language of the Dakotas(Sioux)-they do not have an alphabetical written language you have the variations of "D", "N" and "L"...dakota, nakota, lakota...
with variations getting localised.
To: native southern chinese speakers--- aren't their variations in pronounciatins of the same word in foshanese, toishanese, hakka etc.
Tom may know- didnt Moy Yat speak more witha Toishanese accent? Different from Ip Man etc?
No hidden agenda- a real query!
Slight differences in pronounciation even with the same written language often is an indicator of location, geography, community and sometimes of class/status
Slow & Steady
Nice elaboration, CFT.
I wasn't implying that, and apologize if it appeared so. It was more an observation on trends and tendencies in use. The description of literati from a literati friend of mine with a special penchant for language and dialect. He himself adheres to the former and more formal "N" sound, and does not hesitate to correct me when I use the more common "L" sound or spelling.Originally posted by CFT
In HK and Guangdong this is a continuing trend, but I'm not aware that it started out as a means of distinguishing class/education.
Regards,
- Kathy Jo
Senior Member
"SIL NIM TAO"What you consider Dogma, others more accurately consider a futile obsession.
3. Yep, only you have the true WC right Hendikk?? Why don't you tell us about your localized evolution??? You won't will you, and that's because you believe your White Crane Wing Chun is the true WC.
That's fine... Believe what you want... but be honest about it. It's due time you stop attacking others for things that you, yourself are guilty of.
Many search for SIL NIM TAO as we look for a hat we wear on our heads.
Hendrik too, it seems, has a fearful vision: waking up one morning and realizing that his SLT, so-called White Crane Wing Chun is gone, and worse, he doesn't know Wing Chun has SNT, Chum Kiu and Biu Gee.
Consider what "missing white crane" might mean for Hendrik. No more SLT? or No more Wing Chun? or No more posts from Hendrik?
Last edited by Rhat; 09-28-2004 at 06:07 PM.
Always Pondering
If the Dogma of the PIKACHU is about
1, bring up technical questions,
2, allow everyone to express thier view/reason on the topic,
3 searching and finding out what happen in every Localization Evolution.
then, let that be the Happy PIKACHU DOGMA.
Funny, I thought his dogma was about:
1. bring up technical questions and offer none of his original thoughts regarding what he brings up when asked to do so.
2. Gets frustrated by repeated requests to post on his own threads, to guide them, or to add to them.
3. Claim everyone is attacking him due to his lack of #2.
4. State he's leaving the forum for good due to the hostility here.
5. Leave the forum for a week, then realize he can't be complete without being online and participating in this forum, then resurrect himself under a new identity.
Steps 1-5 seem to be repeated every 6 months or so.
Stephen Rudnicki
"These things we know, but not those that he felt when he descended into the last shade of all."
--JLB
Senior Member
Originally posted by Rhat
"SIL NIM TAO"
Many search for SIL NIM TAO as we look for a hat we wear on our heads.
Hendrik too, it seems, has a fearful vision: waking up one morning and realizing that his SLT, so-called White Crane Wing Chun is gone, and worse, he doesn't know Wing Chun has SNT, Chum Kiu and Biu Gee.
Consider what "missing white crane" might mean for Hendrik. No more SLT? or No more Wing Chun? or No more posts from Hendrik?
You are welcome to start a new topic on
---- Consider what "missing white crane" might mean for Hendrik. No more SLT? or No more Wing Chun? or No more posts from Hendrik?
so that others will discuss. Why Not? Pikachu's is very open minded.
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