Kicking in wing chun/tsun/tjun etc etc...

[SAAMAG]

Hey guys, you ever notice that different lineages of wing chun will all have different variances of kicks and leg techniques?

I prefer to simply use the front, side, round, and sweeping kicks (in addition of course to the blocking aspects.)

I've seen some lineages with 5+ kicks. What do you all tend to use in "spontaneous" situations, and how many does your style teach?

[couch]

There are only three kicks in my lineage and they all derive from the Chum Kiu.

1. Front Kick - This is not a chambered kick like a Karate person would do...it lifts straight up from where the foot is on the floor and extends out in the short-range-fashion that is seen with the Wing Chun punch.

2. Lifting/Shovel Kick - This is a like a cross cut kick, again without the chamber. Just lift and extend right from the floor.

3. Side Kick - Same principle...no chamber, lift, pivot, kick.

These kicks can be used to bridge a gap or in combat to take out the legs. I've always heard in class..."If you have a strong opponent, use a strong weapon: the legs."

I know of other Wing Chun clubs using high roundhouses, hook kicks, etc. Depends on the application, I guess.

Peace,
Couch

[yellowpikachu]

Eight methods under leg source from Emei 12 Zhuang.

[azwingchun]

We have 8 kicking methods (principles).

[Mckind13]

Hedrick -

Can you share those 8 methods with us?

I use about 16 different kicks but the thats much more then if you look at the energy/ intention of kicks

17 if I pretend to be a Thai boxxer ...not to be confused with a Tie Fighter )-O-(

Dave

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by Mckind13
Hedrick -

Can you share those 8 methods with us?

I use about 16 different kicks but the thats much more then if you look at the energy/ intention of kicks

17 if I pretend to be a Thai boxxer ...not to be confused with a Tie Fighter )-O-(

Dave

Dave,

It is difficult to express...
I share it with Robet long time ago. Check it out with Robert.

the 8 methods are keys to aware and manual Legs --- toes to thigh including the meridians activation. One can make lots and lots of kicks from it. It also develops kung fu different then those streching exercise type. It is a part of the holistic Full Arrow system. it is about more then kicks.

[sihing]

We use just about every kick available, depends on the situation. I believe that every person entering to learn WC should learn the basics of the Martial Arts, which includes the basic kicks of Front, Round, Side, Hook, Crescent. Specific Wing Chun kicks are different in application and structure due to our stances and such, for example, our Wing Chun Round Kick is more like a Thai Kick in regards to power, than the typical snap round kick. From our Side Neutral Stance, the kick would only be engaged as a supplement to a combat technique, then using a side step the practicioner would kick from where the foot is, meaning no wind up and extend through the target. Sorta like a "1 inch Kick" but longer, it has both speed and power since no wind up is mandatory. We can kick high or low also depending on the situation. To kick high we would lop sau first to bring the head down and control the balance then apply the kick. Also personal attributes contribute to what type of kick will and can be applied, some of us have flexibility and enough strength to make higher kicks work while others do not have this ability, regardless, Wing Chun's kicks has something for everyone. As a matter of fact I just taught the useage of a kick on Saturday to the students that was strikingly similar to a Panjakmen Kick used on a Paul Vunak tape, when the opponent retreats from trapping range to kicking range and you have to use a kick to bridge the distance. Check out the thread "Demo Clip" I started, both of us demonstrating use high kicks as well as low kicks to demonstrate the diversity of the art.


James

[SAAMAG]

I have learned just about every kick known to martial arts through my experiences in TKD, Shaolin, and muay thai. That being said, one of the things I actually like about wing chun is it's simplicity in kicking.

Originally when I learned wing chun from my stepbrother years ago, I learned the low level front and side kicks. That's it. I learned that in wing chun the hands are for above the waist and the feet are for below. To kick to high at someones face for example would be the equivelent to punching down at someone's foot. This is not efficient, and according to everything I've learned about WING CHUN so far, goes against all it's theories of efficiency.

So why the incorperation of high kicking? Not to say that high kicks can't be effective, but can one say that it is from wing chun? When I teach other kicking methods I make sure to inform my student that the kicks are actually from "x" system...and that the methodology and targets don't necessarily mesh with wing chun theories. ( I do this a lot of times to give a more rounded out education in kicking....not as a "part" of wing chun)

Any thoughts?

[anerlich]

Originally when I learned wing chun from my stepbrother years ago, I learned the low level front and side kicks. That's it. I learned that in wing chun the hands are for above the waist and the feet are for below. To kick to high at someones face for example would be the equivelent to punching down at someone's foot. This is not efficient, and according to everything I've learned about WING CHUN so far, goes against all it's theories of efficiency.

WC is hardly alone in this. There are few (basically zero) high kicks in Xingyi, Bagua, Taiji, and most Southern Chinese styles (like WC) do not kick as much or as high and wide as their Norther counterparts, though there are exceptions..

You don't see many high kicks in MMA because of the high likelihood of the leg being caught, though there are notable exceptions, Gilbert Yvel being a fine example. Most styles will tell you that high kicks are for the gym or competition, not for defense situations.

TKD and older style American kickboxing require high kicks for competition. Kyokushin competition allows (unless things have changed) no punches to the head, only kicks. If you're going to compete in one of those sports, good head kicks will be a great asset.

While I don't hold much with punching anyone in the foot either, similar movements, like the low ankle shoot, can be fairly simple, highly effective and pretty safe, especially against someone with no takedown defense.

Efficiency is important, but not as important as combat effectiveness. Hook punches, according to some, are "inefficient", but they have and will continue to connect with purists using only WC straight punches. High kicks are foolish and laughable, right up until some clueless non-WC'er manages to whack you in the ear with one. As St Bruce said, "efficiency is anything that scores".

I agree that ankle shoots and high kicks are "not Wing Chun", though that's hardly an absolute determiinant of whether or not they are worth practicing. If you can kick high with power and speed, and keep doing it for a considerable time, your lower kicks will be even easier than they might otherwise be.

Besides, there are few more satisfying feelings than your foot or shin connecting (controlled of course ) with the head of a sparmate

[Mckind13]

Hendrick

Is this the Stepping Form you showed Dzu and I?

Can I e-mail you off line, Robert is really busy right now!

Let me know @ info@wingchunfaat.com

Dave

[Vajramusti]

FWIW IMO-

It's possible to train all kinds of kicks from wing chun stances-
for foundation work for mobility, flexibilty and coordination.

There used to be a separate kicking section on the dummy- now integrated in some dummy forms.

But is usually a mistake to kick where hands can do their work.
But if the legs are not mobile, flexible and coordinated- the hands are hampered. If the hands are controlling- the legs are more free.

I was flabbergasted by a wing chun guy ina ufc contest- the first thing he did was try a kick- (at a minimum yoda sez- no try-do)-
he was immediately taken down and finished..

[AmanuJRY]

I like the way Chung K. Chow broke it down in his older videos.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by Mckind13
Hendrick

Is this the Stepping Form you showed Dzu and I?

Can I e-mail you off line, Robert is really busy right now!

Let me know @ info@wingchunfaat.com

Dave

yup. there are 8 methods in that form.

I just talked to Robert this everning. ya, he is busy.