Martial Arts: A Post-modern Approach

[anerlich]

Paul, no I've not read the book.

The essay is meant to be polemic, in that it argues one point of view rather than trying for balance. It doesn't reflect my total view on things.

And as a postmodernist I commend you for disagreeing.

[PaulH]

Well, I kind of mentioned this before. See this old post back in 2/04. We have some sort of old glue on this! =)

____________________________________________
Okay, no more politics and back to WC learning discussion. My view which posted year ago in response to whippinghand1 has not changed so far (The background was the ongoing discussion on the logics of Ernie's controversial training methods back then):

"Actually Ernie's perspective is based on the assumption that there is no single system including his that can adequately cover all aspects of reality. For the sake of discussion, I'm going to borrow the ideas of Mitroff in his well-known "Multiple Realities Model" and applied to WC according to Ernie.

First of all, from a quick perusal of his numerous posts I don't see that Ernie's real purpose is to come up with a single way or system that solves all problems. It is rather to allow himself to act. It is not the truth of his system or his views he hold that dictate his modus operandi. But only through action, he comes to learn of the "working truth" of his multiple views model, where "truth" is defined by the ability to respond not only to one's immediate problem, but to anticipate future problems, and thus gain an invaluable edge on working on them before they have gotten out of control.

He observes from his own experience and reflection that when WC methods appropriate for well-structured or bounded problems are applied inappropriately to ill-structure or messy ones in the "real" world, the result is often disastrous. Thus he contends that the solution and hope lie in the ability of each WCner to view problems from multiple views and multiple disciplines. It is his reality and his bone of contention."

Regards,
PH

[Vajramusti]

Good writing on post modernism Andrew... enjoyed it very much.

I am somewhat slippery on labels myself. I steal from structuralist pigeon holes, post structuralist, modernist, post modernist, subaletrn studies, pragmatism,...you name it.

I have always liked Alfred North Whitehead's characterization of knowledge as involving an alternation between a search for certainty and a distrust of it.

That has been part of my wing chun journey as well-looking deeply into the system but avoiding ideology and discovering things for myself...conceptually, operationally, physically and actually... while being grateful to those who have aided me in my martial journey- not just wing chun. If wing chun didnt "work" I wouldnt be doing it.

Given my balanced immersion in non western and eastern worlds
I am more patient than many folks I know regarding esoteric use of language, of metaphors and denotative pointing and the importance of some tacit knowledge in evaluating information or claims of information. So the well known imagery of standing on the shoulders of giants- for me involves giants of the west and east in the human journey which for me includes martial knowledge and competence.---within the limitaions that nature and chance impose on individuals including me...

[reneritchie]

Hey Andrew,

Great piece. It's funny in that any really good martial art is (like anything) the product of continued generational advancement, but Asian arts, due to the culture, are typically 'sold' based on being 'ancient and unchanged' (even divine in origin).

If you're part of that culture, you understand the context and it's never confused for what it isn't, and you continue the development even while continuing the 'ancient and unchanged' facade.

Then, ironically, Westerners who understand this intrisically about everything else, forget it when it comes to Asian arts. Selective compartmentalization.

But is we look at it, everything goes in cycles. The old stagnates, some young rebel(s) come(s) along and shakes everything up, the new prospers, only to eventually stagnate and become the old until yet another rebellion happens.

Pre-Wing Chun -> Jeet Kune Do -> Straight Blast is just one easy example, and there are many and there will be many more.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Would like to comment on this paragraph from one of Andrew Nerlich's earlier posts on this thread:

"JKD regards each TMA as a Modern Grand Narrative, deconstructs it and allows the practitioner to make his own by recombining from the deconstructions. It is for each to decide whether this will lead to an uncoordinated hodgepodge of disconnected tools, or a custom-built set of sleek weaponry."

I think Bruce Lee was WAY ahead of his time - precisely because he deconstructed various fighting systems and recombined them in ways that WERE a custom-built set of sleek weaponry. (As well as his creative use of various training/strenghtening/conditioning methods).

I sometimes wonder at what he would be doing now - if he were 30 years old today... and how he would be transforming his own personal version of JKD...how much grappling to use? When and how to apply it? Would the low, lead sidekick still be such a favorite weapon? etc.

Pure speculation on my part, of course.

[kj]

Thought provoking piece, Andrew, and I learned some new things too. You must've had some fun writing that one.

I find that I somewhat fit both cubby holes (a bit of Venn bubble and some glue), but neither one exactly. Another good model that isn't 100% perfect I guess.

Regards,
- kj

[lawrenceofidaho]

Andrew,

that's some great writing.

I think you should do some (very slight) editing, and then submit it for publication in one of the hardcopy martial art mags for sale on the news stands....... What you've just shared with us is (at least) twice as valuable and thought provoking as most of the stuff that makes it to print (If I were an editor, I would be willing to write a check out for it.)

-Lawrence


p.s. I like the Krishnamurti quote you recently placed on your signature line.

[anerlich]

Thanks Lawrence ... I'm hoping one day to make some cash from writing. I'm not sure it suits most markets, but then I onlt read two Aussie MA mags and the occasional copy of Grappling magazine.

Credit where due, I stole the Krishnamurti quote from A Matt Thornton (Straight Blast Gym) DVD.

[Vajramusti]

Krishnamurti was a protege of Annie Besant of the Theosophical Society but broke away from his mentor and developed further on his own.

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by anerlich
Thanks Lawrence ... I'm hoping one day to make some cash from writing. I'm not sure it suits most markets, but then I onlt read two Aussie MA mags and the occasional copy of Grappling magazine.

Credit where due, I stole the Krishnamurti quote from A Matt Thornton (Straight Blast Gym) DVD.

Let me know when the book comes out.

P.S. I'm a big fan of Matt Thornton...and Krishnamurti (I like the quote too).

[lawrenceofidaho]

Originally posted by Vajramusti
Krishnamurti was a protege of Annie Besant of the Theosophical Society but broke away from his mentor and developed further on his own.

-Because he discovered no single way of thought could contain all the answers....... All dogmas are dead, stagnant, and only reference the past. -Dogmas cannot capture the truth of the present NOW moment.

Krishnamurti summed this up, saying that; "Truth is a pathless land". It so influenced our friend Bruce, that he put it in his own words and began talking about; "Using no way, as way."

-Lawrence