FALUN GONG/Falun Dafa

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

thinking his perspective might be interesting, had BL run this past her chinese cop-friend.......

he is bound by law, but from what I hear a practical and compassionate man.......

he says, crux of the matter is many chinese still even today see the value in falun gong as a practice and acknowledge its benifits, and unforunately for chinas political state, what it came down to is that Lihong Zhi had more supporters than the goverment there was willing to accept. And with that, they took to proclaiming both his lunacy and intent to "take control of the country". That amount of support comprimises their political secruity and won't be allowed to go on.

btw, still no excuse for murder, gencide ( nor suicide) on either side, but far as I can see, a good take on it. And that folks is china.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

if I were a sceptic I'd call everything you said conspirital theoried!

We want to support you. what else you got???

[Juna]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
if I were a sceptic I'd call everything you said conspirital theoried!

We want to support you. what else you got???

Have you watched this film which has earned a award in a film exhibition, if you have, you are sure to know how evil CCP is to produce this suicide case and impute Falun Gong. And also you would realize how did other cases come from.

Self-Immolation Hoax on Tiananmen Square

[Juna]

International Education Development (IED)'s Statement at the U.N.



UNITED NATIONS

Sub-Commission on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights
Fifty-third session
Agenda item 6

August, 2001

International Education Development has followed the topic of terrorism and human rights for many years and we welcomed the appointment of the Sub-Commission's Special Rapporteur Mme. Koufa in 1996. ... We strongly agree with the Special Rapporteur that State terrorism in the form of government terror against its own people -- what she calls "terrorism from above" -- produces far more gross violations of human rights than any other form of terrorism. ...When a regime resorts to State terrorism, the international community can expect to be overwhelmed with cases under the international mechanisms and swamped with persons seeking asylum from that regime. Such is the case in China with the regime's violent assault on practitioners of Falun Gong.

In our statement under item 3 we described the Falun Gong Practice as we have found it to be. The government, in exercise of the right to reply, attempted to justify its State terrorism against the group by calling it an "[Chinese government's slanderous words deleted]" that has caused deaths and the break-up of families. In our investigation, the only deaths have been at the hands of the Chinese authorities; families have been broken up because family members have been killed by the regime; people have been broken down, not by Falun Gong, but by extreme torture, incarceration in mental hospitals with brutal treatment, hard labour in labour camps and other such practices. As was reported in the International Herald Tribune on August 6, 2001, the regime admits that it has officially sanctioned violence against practitioners in order to wipe out Falun Gong. The regime points to a supposed self-immolation incident in Tiananmen Square on January 23, 2001 as proof that Falun Gong is an "[Chinese government's slanderous words deleted]". However, we have obtained a video of that incident that in our view proves that this event was staged by the government. We have copies of that video available for distribution.

In his most recent report ( U.N. Doc. E/CN.4/2001/66, the Commission's Special Rapporteur on Torture attests to tens of thousands detained and tortured practitioners. (Paras. 246-290). The Commission's Special Rapporteurs on Violence against Women and Extrajudicial Executions also attest to these abuses, with similar indications as to numbers. (E/CN.4/2001/73/Add.1, para. 19; E/CN.4/2001/[ ]). We are compiling evidence indicating that at least 50,000 Falun Gong practitioners are detained in prisons, labour camps or mental hospitals, of which thousands are beaten and many tortured to death. Hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of practitioners are severely threatened. The UN mechanisms clearly cannot handle this volume of verified cases, nor can the international community easily cope with perhaps millions of asylum seekers -- all of whom would clearly meet asylum criteria. Accordingly, the international community as a whole and the Sub-Commission in particular should address this situation of State terrorism as one of extreme urgency.

http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/artic...9/9/13711.html

[SPJ]

Thanks for the detailed and chronological reports of events.

1) The believers or practitioners outnumbered the CCP cadres. True.

However, the real threats are from ideology. If you have a thought to tell people what is right or wrong. People start to use that thought to question everything including the power of the ruling party.

CCP enjoyed support from the majority of peasants (farmers), more than 90% of the whole population in China from the very beginning of CCP to today in 21 century.

If there is a replacing ideology/thought or a leader or an organization, that is bigger or stronger??

2) Agreed. Politics is always about mobilizing a group of people/mass against the other group. Their being wrong is your being right, thus your power to lead. The basis of power is support of people/mass. If you have a mass of Fa Lun practitioners, you have power. Whatever you say will be followed by the mass.

3) You may suppress the mass of believers and take away their liberty. However, to stamp out the thoughts or roots of thinking is almost impossible, unless you have open discussions.

In short, if Fa Lun is right then CCP is wrong. That is what CCP fears. China's rulers are always tolerant of individuals, till you have a mass of people, then you will be watched. Anything threatens the power base, you will be suppressed as a group.

Everybody is apalled by the human atrocities or tragedies.

[SPJ]

If Fa Lun is legit and good, it will stand the trials of the time and prosper.

The Romans tries to suppress Christians thruout its empire. The Christians flourish, outgrow and outlive the empire.

The truth will come out. The righteous will win out in the end and have hearts of the people.

On the other hand, if it is not. Once the charisma of the leader is gone and so are the mass.

[SPJ]

TCM theory of Ba Duan Jin Qi Gong (the most widely practiced Qi Gong since Song dynasty).

The moves help to regulate 3 burners. (Tiau Li San Jiao)

It helps the upper, mid and lower burners in your body. It expands and shrinks your chest to help the heart and lung. It massages your internal organs and helps digestive functions.

It expels the waste Qi and takes in O2 and Qi from the Tien and Di, heaven and earth. So there are Tien Di Ren San He. There harmonies among the heaven, people and the earth.

TCM theory of Ba Gua walk Qi Gong.

The Ba Gua circle walks help to regulate and open up your Ren Du Er Mai (conception and governing vessels) and improve your health and longevity.

So the question is that Fa Lun Qi Gong, what is the theory and practice?

How is the practice of Fa Lun Qi Gong coupled to Buddhist enlightenment?

[GLW]

Juna,

your bias is so blatantly obvious - as a Falun Gong member, that your ability to spearate the wheat from the chaft is impaired.

In skimming your voluminous posts...one after another, the quote from Hamlet comes to mind "Methinks (s)he doth protest too much..."

Whether or not ALL of the issues on the Falun Gong folks is true or not is one for debate but the bottom line is that it is still an internal issue with the Chinese government.

Now, if you are in a society and deem that the system does not work for you and is oppressive, you CAN oppose said regime. In doing so, you may very well kill or be killed. Each person desiring freedom must amke a choice in that area. But it is FIRST their choice to make BEFORE any outside group would or should be involved. Freedom is NEVER given to anyone...but always earned...and all too often it is earned in blood.

The Falun Gong folks defied the PRC government by having a 10,000+ demonstration in Beijing at Tienanmen Square AFTER they were denied permission to have the event.

When they did it anyway, they HAD to know that this put them on a collision course with the PRC government.

So, the followers in the PRC are going against the laws of their government... knowingly... But where is Li Hongshi during all of this.

For the leader of the group and as a person that is more than willing to tell others how their methods are incomplete and wrong, it appears that he has suprisingly little personal skin in the game....

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW
Juna,

Whether or not ALL of the issues on the Falun Gong folks is true or not is one for debate but the bottom line is that it is still an internal issue with the Chinese government.

No, this is the concept of CCP and all the dictatorial regimes.

Not everything is China is the internal issue of Chinese government. For example, when sb's neighbor who has drunk too much and is trying to kill his children, do you think this is the drunk person's family's internal affair? Do you think everyone who knows this should stop the drunk person at once?

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW
Juna,
The Falun Gong folks defied the PRC government by having a 10,000+ demonstration in Beijing at Tienanmen Square AFTER they were denied permission to have the event.

....

The gathering of Falun Gong practitioners was not at Tiananmen Square! It was at the gate of State Council Appeal Office.

We did not ask the permission of demonstration, because no one organized that, therefore, how come we were denied permission?
And this was not a demonstration, we went there to appeal.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Originally posted by Juna
Falun Gong is much different than ordinary qigong, Master Li uses the form of Qigong to transmit Buddha Law.

sacrildge!! If they had the buddha law and called it that, they'd be buddhist. Buddha law involves detatchment !! Falun gong is mainly different, because it has a master ( not neccessarily physically either) that you cultivate to and through and other branches don't. End of story. that's the difference

[Juna]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
End of story. that's the difference [/B]

Falun Gong is diferent from Buddism, and not related to the teachings in Buddhism.

[SPJ]

Juna;

Thank you very much for sharing all the stories and info.

I watched the Qi Gong exercise videos. I like it very much.

Chinese politics sometimes is very illusive to outsiders.

Politics is a number game. Politics is about the balance in power.

Here are some theories;

1) There are 4 millions CCP cadres and 1 million PLA. Fa Lun followers may be 10 to 20 million. There are 1 billion (1000 Mil's) people in China and 28 Mil in Taiwan.

2) If you practice Qi gong and study Buddhism on a personal level as a self improvement for health and mind, it is positive to the people and the country.

3) However, the organization is what CCP fears. There are signs of public support on a very fundamental level. CCP is much afraid. A simple issue or request needs the Premier to mitigate. What is next? A big cloud is hanging. The thunderstorm or the hurricane or tornado is forming. --

4) With or without Fa Lun, power struggle (Quan Li Do Zhen) is always ongoing. To stay in power, you have to belong to a group (Dang or Pai Si) and struggle as a group. The leader usually represents a subset of people. Nobody goes along in Chinese politics for 5000 years of its written history.

5) The struggle of Fa Lun must divide CCP into pro or con groups. The cons may be in power right now, however, the table may turn anytime, when enough people sentiments on Fa Lun side are outnumbering again, the pro group will rise to power.

As a civilian, let us focus on the study and practice on a personal level. Let the power of politics or the number game play itself out. You have to read and study 5000 years of Chinese history to know all about the ins and outs of politics in the middle kingdoms.

There will always be persecutions of one group of people by the other for one way or the other. Today is Fa Lun, tommorrow may be some other group.

Chinese people are mostly silent but aware. The people will survive. They survive 5000 years of wars and political struggles, didn't they?

[GLW]

As for the demonstration : That took place a few years ago...just before the PRC outlawed Falun Gong. The story of the demonstration was posted in a number of Asian news sources as well as the Falun Gong's organization's news/newsletter web site. It chronicled how they had requested permission to have their rally, were turned down, and then 10,000 peacefully did it anyway. It also chronicled how a number of the "leaders" were then arrested for the demonstration (illegally leading a demonstration that had been denied) a few days later. Now, if I got the site wrong, that is immaterial.

The point is that they were told that they could NOT hold their rally. They did it anyway. They took the consequences for that action. That demonstration was the final action that led to the big discussions that ended up with Falun Gong being outlawed.

Seems to me like they WANTED to push the envelope for a confrontation. THAT is hardly following a peaceful Dafa path....

The fact that you say "WE went there to appeal..." reveals your total bias. However, you did NOT deny that your group WAS there, nor did you deny the numbers. The PRC conservatively placed the count at 10,000 and at the time, the Falun Gong sites were claiming 10,000+.

Can't have it both ways.

"Falun Gong is much different than ordinary qigong, Master Li uses the form of Qigong to transmit Buddha Law."

Yet his own writings say that Buddha Law is incorrect, incomplete, and , as with all other religions and Qi Gong methods, off base and nowhere near as perfect as Falun Gong.

Rather arrogant and misguided it would seem to me. Given that a person that is truly enlightened would be calm and humble, such arrogance says that Li is offbase.

Juna, you obviously LIKE your Falun Gong and enjoy it. Fine. But there is no reason for others to be bothered with your approaches or the likes of Li Hongzhi.

If you want to fight a battle to be recognized in China...fine. However, YOU start the fight. And have the illustrious Li Hongzhi be leading the charge.

While there IS repression in China, Falun Gong is small potatoes. The ONLY reason the US did any resolutions on it to begin with was that it was a very convenient political tool to put on the table in negotiations with China on other things. If it had not been Falun Gong, it would have been the brutal murder of Shar Pei puppies or the abuse of innocent goldfish.

Sorry, but the US congress could care less about Falun gong...and in actuality, most of the population of the US would have their Judeo-Christian sensibilities jangled if a Falun Gong group moved in next door.

[Juna]

Originally posted by GLW
As for the demonstration : That took place a few years ago...just before the PRC outlawed Falun Gong. The story of the demonstration was posted in a number of Asian news sources as well as the Falun Gong's organization's news/newsletter web site. It chronicled how they had requested permission to have their rally, were turned down, and then 10,000 peacefully did it anyway. It also chronicled how a number of the "leaders" were then arrested for the demonstration (illegally leading a demonstration that had been denied) a few days later. Now, if I got the site wrong, that is immaterial.

The point is that they were told that they could NOT hold their rally. They did it anyway. They took the consequences for that action. That demonstration was the final action that led to the big discussions that ended up with Falun Gong being outlawed.

No, what you saw are the lies of CCP from CCP's media or certain media of other countries copied CCP' s propaganda.

We did not request permission, because it was not a demonstration and no one organized it.

CCP is good at lying, as you age I think you should know that. Remember the case of SARS?

If you want to know sth, donot read it from CCP's media, this is an useful advice, really.