Wong Shun Leung HK interview

[Ernie]

Just got sent the VCD by a friend , skimmed it Wong talks about the [ modern] history of wing Chun , his first meeting with yip and a whole lot more
Just wanted to know if this is a rare video or do most people have it ?
As with the SLT seminar , it’s translated into English and I have been instructed to pass it to certain WSL sifu’s as long as they don’t try and sell it
After that I will start leaking it around ,

Real cool for the history buffs out there , considering he gives his account to a few stories that were floating around

If this is already out their and many of you have it cool guess I was just late

[Vajramusti]

Ernie= what are some of the highlights specially on the art-
state of the art etc.

[Vajramusti]

Ernie= what are some of the highlights specially on the art-
state of the art etc.
If it's an interview- it is somewhat public isnt it?
Would interest everyone, I would think.

Joy

[Ernie]

oy i'm running late for class
didn't get to watch it just skimmed it

i'll check it out when i get back home tonight

it was a tv interview so yep it's public

but the other stuff i got is not all seminars

[russellsherry]

hi earnie, if you could spare a copy mate i might send you a dvd
of danny inosanto austraian tape or so i will put on larry hartswell as well and some otjher stuff on my first sifu see if gary knows him oh earnie i will be training with dan on the 19 0f decemeber peace russell sherry

[Jeff Bussey]

I'm interested too.

J

[captain]

some WSL questions,folks.

1,did WSL really mix western boxing with wc?
2,did WSL really fight and get taught a lesson from
a wc man,and that's why he began wc?
3,did WSL fight the thais ever?

sincerely,

Russ

[Frank Exchange]

Hopefully Dave Peterson is around to give you in depth answers, but in the meantime, to the best of my knowledge

1. No. But he was a boxer and a scrapper before he was a wing chun man, so it gave him a different perspective, and he certainly fought boxers. He tried to make WC very simple, direct and efficient, which he may have absorbed from boxing.

2. Yep. He went to Yip Man class, thought it was rubbish, and polished of a student easily. Then a higher level student beat him, and finally he asked to have a go with Yip Man. He claims that what impressed him was that YM never had to actually hit him, he just controlled him at every stage, eventually tying him up into a corner.

3. Don't know. Gary Lam, one of his students certainly did. Ernie knows more about that.

[YongChun]

Originally posted by captain
some WSL questions,folks.

1,did WSL really mix western boxing with wc?
2,did WSL really fight and get taught a lesson from
a wc man,and that's why he began wc?
3,did WSL fight the thais ever?

sincerely,

Russ

I think he mixed the attributes from boxing with his Wing Chun and not the movements. If you are a fighter already then you will also be a fighter if you learn Wing Chun. Boxing is still one of the best fighting arts.

I read in a Chinese publication that a bunch of senior students of Yip Man including Wang Kiu, all entered into a tournament in Hong Kong and all of them lost. Then they realized that success in chi sau and success at street fighting was not the same as success in ring combat. I think the almost 100% chi sau model with minimal conditioning, worked ok in the street because the guy rushed into chi sau range or you the WC guy rushed in and immediately they were in chi sau range with neither having grappling skills. However in tournament combat it wasn't so easy to close the distance. In cases where it was, easy then those folks also have confident close range skills whether it was Thai boxing, SanDa, Judo, etc.

Some clubs then re-evaluated their training methods and some actually dropped Chi sau out of the curriculum opting for boxing type of training. Those people had a much better success rate in ring competition.

Just what I heard many times and read, I wasn't there.

Ray

[Ernie]

Ray-I think he mixed the attributes from boxing with his Wing Chun and not the movements. If you are a fighter already then you will also be a fighter if you learn Wing Chun. Boxing is still one of the best fighting arts.


I tend agree but not for the reason you listed
First a few things to think about , not much in the way of great boxing going on in Hong Kong in the 50’s so WSL exposure to boxing I’m sure was no were near the caliber of what we know and see today
But I do feel his exposure to the training methods in boxing and to full contact sparring gave him a clear goal and no BS filter to view and learn wing chun from ,
He new what to look for and how to use it and was not afraid to test it [ when you fight many universal truths come out when you stay stuck in the training system anything can work ]
That’s why there is such simple clarity to his approach no fluff , it wouldn’t hold up under the WSL approach [ training methods ] things are so direct and explosive and no chasing hands that your game has to be tight or you bleed .

So when I see him move I see only clean and clear wing chun , no extra this or that , not a wing chun guy using boxing there is a huge difference , you see a Wing chun guy being efficient with wing chun
After watching the interview [ I just finished ] it cleared up a lot of reasons why there are so many [ other wing chun approaches ] out there
He was very honest about training under Yip , who really spent the most time there and spending the most time didn’t really translate into who had the greatest understanding of the skill

He also makes it point to not put himself up on any pedestal ,

As we have heard yip had a lot to do with different interpretations of the art , the guy never intended to be a teacher so when he learned , it was not in the same way a person taking notes and planning on teaching would learn , so a lot of stuff was forgotten and bits and pieces would change and resurface as the years went by , especially in the wooden dummy

He speaks on all the rumors and his seniors , he is a very humble and respectful person , but he is also honest , pretty much all the big names are brought up by the reporter [ you can tell he is trying to corner Wong ] but Wong is a honest man so there was really nothing to hide .
Got to get back and watch the second cd now =)

[YongChun]

Wong Shun Leung had all those good attributes yet his training model that he passed on to students is the same as everyone is complaining about these days as not being effective. He followed the normal model I talked about of forms, drills, chi sau, sparring and then going out to fight with not all of his students opting for the last step. Those who did the last step were most likely better fighters. I think WSL also lost in the competition mentioned in that Hong Kong book. He and Wang Kiu buddied around and did a lot of stuff together. Yet there still seemed to be a rivalry between the two with students switching from one to the other. I found WSL to be more talkative and open and didn't mind if a student argued with him. Wang Kiu was more traditional where you don't question the teacher. In both cases you respect the guys knowledge but I like the comfortable atmosphere where you are allowed to question better as opposed to the Japanese model where you are told to shut up and do as you are told. Of course you put a lid on students who would rather talk than train.

Ray

[Ernie]

Your right
but his method of training is more intense , pressure cultivation directness
very get to the point oriented

and he was out fighting within a year

so the need to get it right was there

most of the WSL cats i have come across are real direct and powerful very balistic

that part is still there but as for them taking the next step

to each there own

i'm sure WSL lost more then one fight , most real fighters lose almost as much as they win
it's how you grow

the thing i look at is the setting of the goal and the filter you use
that part holds my interest

and what methods he used to cultivate functional fight skills and explosive direct power

the rest doesn't really matter to me much

ray as for the process you describe every martial art has it nothing new
it's how you do it and what you try and get out of it

[YongChun]

One of our female Chinese members visited Wong Shun Leung in Hong Kong in the late 80's. She said the students were doing intense chi sau with bleeding noses and split lips. She asked those guys whether they liked that kind of training and they said yes because they wanted to be sure the stuff was going to work on the street.

Ray

[Vajramusti]

Ray and Ernie---
the bit about boxing is a bit overdone. Hong Kong was not and is not much on the radar screen of the boxing world. Yes putting on the gloves and flailing in a private school context- not much beyond that.

I have never heard much about Wang Kiu- except for mostly Ray's posts- naturally.

The wing chun real fighters that I know of all did chi sao- though a rocking socking version when preparing for a fight. Chi sao is a continuum-different kinds-- different intensities. Of course it can be supplemented but without chi sao there is a chance that one is heading for jkd, kenpo etc IMO anyways.

[Ernie]

Originally posted by YongChun
One of our female Chinese members visited Wong Shun Leung in Hong Kong in the late 80's. She said the students were doing intense chi sau with bleeding noses and split lips. She asked those guys whether they liked that kind of training and they said yes because they wanted to be sure the stuff was going to work on the street.

Ray

yep,
that is what my first few years at gary's was like , never left a class with out blood on my shirt mine and the people i trained with , his first generation guys were real hardcore , hospital visits did happen broken limbs and stitches

things have mellowed alot over that last few years , kind of miss the old days

but that type of intense chi sau chases alot of people away