will violence result in another rapper dead?

[rogue]

you don't really 'get it'.

I think I do Abstract, I had been in the music business for close to 20 years before moving on and growing up. Well kind of growing up. I started out in the mid to late 70's and was a rocker and a punk, but I also played soul, funk, backed up a classic doo whop group, played country with a punk tinge, did metal, jazz (as long as it swings) and even weddings. Most of these so called cultures that sprout up, and of which I've belonged to 2 or 3 of, are manufactured. Of course not when they first start out, but as soon as they get a little notice and some young folk with cash they're willing to dispose of, then it's just a gold rush. More so now with cable and all. The ones who really, really get it are the ones making money off of it. Most if not all of the subcultures are about sex, drugs/drinking and partying, but some may overlay that with a social message of some sort. But when you scratch the surface they're all the same.

My theory is that the industry manipulates stupid thuggish types into stars (and there are LOTS of hiphoppers who don't fit this stereotype) because it's much easier for them to get manipulated out of their earnings.

That and it feeds into the danger fantasy of the fans. I love watching these guys show off their rented houses and brag about stupid stuff like their X-Box, big screen tv and sneakers. The guys who do well are very pragmatic about what they're doing. They may love making music but they know and are involved in the business. After thugs and druggies, "true artists" are the most gullible.

[Starchaser107]

you could also argue that the message from furious 5 was a part of this gangster vibe.

anyway. this is all very unfortunate. why are rappers like chingy and snoop allowed to come on tv and flaunt thier crip affiliation.
and people like suge a blatant blood still have control over so many things.

http://www.knowgangs.com/gang_resources/menu_001.htm

[Chang Style Novice]

Originally posted by rogue
After thugs and druggies, "true artists" are the most gullible.

Sounds right to me.

[diego]

Originally posted by rogue
I'd go with stupidty, false self importance and the glorification of being a complete and total self destructive moron. 99.9% of that scene just disgusts me. Hip hop needs it's own Spinal Tap but I doubt many of the current crop of performers would get it. The smart ones figured out it's entertainment and a business, the others are living their thug fantasies.

My prediction: Shug is going to get capped.

rouge i take it 99.9% of the scene iyo is that crap at the vibe awards...what is that one percent that doesn't disgust you?...just curious about an old timers view of Hiphop compared to pop-rap-crap

[diego]

okay never mind with my questions rouge i see they got to you first...does the average outsider tho consider poprap to rep 99.9% of the culture?...what about all the other elements and how they are repped worldwide/underground the breakers, the dj's the graff artists etc...there has to be about a million real hiphop heads worldwide...so i'm just trying to wrap my head around the exact percentages of toy and true...

[Abstract]

Red: I said what I said, you can come to your own concluscions about it. I'd rather not get into it. ..(and no I don't think you're being an ass...)

Rogue: --b4 i get started, i ain't upset...so don't read this the wrong way man...NOW: just cuz you've been in the music business doesn't mean you 'get' hip hop....what is it with ppl? Like I said, you are on point about what's become of alot of it lately, but that has nothing to do with understanding hip hop culture. I've dealt with uncountable numbers of ppl in the industry like yourself(not digging you out man) but they thought they 'got it' too, only to come to some rude awakenings...you're not in the thick of what goes on so you can't possibly know. 'getting it' has nothing to do with working in the record/music industry, as a matter of fact, they are usually the ones who 'get it' the LEAST, as they are all about $$ signs & nothing more. the culture gets raped & bastarized at the expense of money---and this happens much more so with urban music & artforms. Jazz is a prime example of that.

Basically because it wasn't made for ppl like you( you= anyone who feels this way). Anyone who really knows the deal & has some backbone will tell you that to your face.

You both(and most ppl) see it as some sort of a joke, or just entertainment. or something teenagers listen to. It is not. Also it's not something you can relate to, have related to, and in no way shape or form does it effect your thoughts actions & so forth. It's NOT something you 'grow out of'...You don't 'grow out of' rock do you? or jazz? So why 'grow out' of rap?? maybe cause it was never really a part of you to begin with.

why not?

Cause it doesn't 'speak' to you. The words coming out of an emcees mouth hold no meaning to you nor can you truly appreciate what's being done as you don't come from the 'same world' to coin a phrase...and Red, it has only very little to do with 'growing up in the ghetto or the streets..'

PPL b!tch about 'gangsta rap' as if there is such a thing....Y'all watch Goodfellas? the Godfather? Horror movies? you can WATCH that--violence, rape, murder, fighting, but can't even LISTEN to someone express the angst of dealing with circumstances that are not usually fantasy but based on bullisht they've actually dealt with? You've never had & never will deal with 99% of that, so how can you 'get it'??

Think about what(who) you're REALLY uncomfortable with, and be honest with yourself....'cause it's not the lyrics, or the music.

RAP IS HIPHOP & HIPHOP IS RAP---there is NO DIFFERENCE.

The only difference came when record executives needed to compartmentalize & market the CD's & LP's for sale to the rest of America. If some knuckleheaded rapper bought/buys into that, well, shame on them, because they all know better. whether or not they openly admit it. they all do.

to quote Q-Tip AKA the Abstract Poetic AKA Kamaal Fareed..."what is hip hop if it doesn't have violence, chill for a minute Doug E. Fresh said silence......" (C) 1992 Low End Theory, ATCQ----CSN citted a few emcees who express similar statements, none of them ever claimed to be 'gangsta rap'...cuz there's really no such thing. but you all knew that right??

i'm not gwan post anymore on this as it's just not productive. I've been misunderstood, i'm not debating this, i'm not just giving you my opinion, i'm TELLIN you LIKE IT IS based on FACT of not just MY experience, but the experience of countless acts signed & unsigned. Friends & some just acquaintences with multiple LP's out & friends in the background. Y'all really have no idea & in the industry or not, you couldn't possibly know, they wouldn't tell someone like you, so take what I say as insiders knowledge & learn from it.... I realise ppl don't like being wrong, & you two seem cool enough, I'm trying to do this as congeinally as possible so that you & anyone else reading this will think twice before they settle on opinions they draw without accurate understanding of this, or other things in the future. So imma let it drop before i really get started.

(sorry if any typos) peace fellas

[Serpent]

Originally posted by rogue
Most if not all of the subcultures are about sex, drugs/drinking and partying, but some may overlay that with a social message of some sort. But when you scratch the surface they're all the same.

Man, you are old!

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Abstract
Think about what(who) you're REALLY uncomfortable with, and be honest with yourself....'cause it's not the lyrics, or the music.

Dude, you just totally failed Psych 101 and Reading Comprehension.

I understand where a lot of what you've said is coming from, but you're as guilty of those you accuse. You claim that they don't get it, when you really don't know them well enough to say so. Then you talk like you don't get them. There's never an answer there.

I've never been a mobster, but I get Goodfellas. I've never been an Orc, but I get Lord Of The Rings.

I've never been a troubled kid growing up in the ghettoes on 8 Mile, but I know a dickhead when I see one. The real deal is out there, but there is such a thing as Gangsta rap and it sucks the money out the pockets of idiots and kids that are too easily led.

With any luck they will live their fantasies and wipe each other out.

[red5angel]

It's NOT something you 'grow out of'

Yes, actually it is. You grow up and understand tha midless violence, gang affiliations and al of that crap are useless crap. You grow out of the idea that hitting people, shooting people and glorifying violence is ok. It's one thing to sing about it, a completely other thing to start a riot at a music awards show.


I don't get this "you odn't get it" crap and "you're not in the thick of it". Are you? I know you live in the hood, but are you haging with these guys? Were you at the Vibes Music awards when it all went down? Unless your in the hip hop/music business, you're not in the thick of it either.
It's pretty basic psychology, as a matter of fact its some of the oldest basic psychology that exists. It doesn't take a whole lot to understand it.
I know it wasn't written "for me" (by the way that's a huge assumption seeing as we're on an internet forum), but the messages are simliar in meaning if not content from plenty of other angry music.

[norther practitioner]

Yes, actually it is. You grow up and understand tha midless violence, gang affiliations and al of that crap are useless crap. You grow out of the idea that hitting people, shooting people and glorifying violence is ok. It's one thing to sing about it, a completely other thing to start a riot at a music awards show

Not always, but generally, maybe, others go in and out of jail and make crime a way of life (wow, I just sounded like a repub.).

[rogue]

'getting it' has nothing to do with working in the record/music industry, as a matter of fact, they are usually the ones who 'get it' the LEAST, as they are all about $$ signs & nothing more.

Don't worry Abstract, I'm not taking what you're saying wrong and I love talking about music. I've said those same things back in the day when I was playing in the punk scene. The rockers and the hippies didn't get us either, they weren't a part of our scene. I still listen to as much of that music as I can find, (when the hell are they re-releasing Johnny Thunders solo stuff?), but I listen to it from a different place. Hard not to with a wife, some kids and a mortgage. Sometimes I laugh at what I was thinking back then and what I thought was important.

Basically because it wasn't made for ppl like you( you= anyone who feels this way). Anyone who really knows the deal & has some backbone will tell you that to your face.

You both(and most ppl) see it as some sort of a joke, or just entertainment. or something teenagers listen to. It is not. Also it's not something you can relate to, have related to, and in no way shape or form does it effect your thoughts actions & so forth. It's NOT something you 'grow out of'...You don't 'grow out of' rock do you? or jazz? So why 'grow out' of rap?? maybe cause it was never really a part of you to begin with.

Please explain what there is to relate to.

Also something you wrote I find incredibly scary and you should too,
"and in no way shape or form does it effect your thoughts actions & so forth.". You're admitting that you're being controlled both mentally and physically. Maybe there is a difference between us since music for me was part of rebellion against something and for you it's about conforming. No offense meant, just some observations of an old geezer in the making.

[brothernumber9]

To a degree I agree with abstract. I think if you are really part of the hip hop culture and it is part of you, you don't just grow out of it unless you completely change your lifestyle and adapt to that change, that change would probably involve moving to a new location with a different environment altogether.

People often try to find similarities in Jazz, Hip-Hop, R&B, Funk, mainly because of the environments and movements that spawned these musics. However I think Hip Hop's closest parallel is country music. There is an undefined but recognizable culture to country. And those that tie thier life to it don't just grow out of it. If affects almost every aspect of thier life, almost up to and including religion. One "country" folk can recognize another, and also recognize those that just wear the clothes or only sing the songs, the holiday cowboys/cowgirls if you will. I think hip hop on it's parallel shares these things. It invades and pervades everything around you, not just what's in your CD player and the label on your clothes.

On the other side of the coin I think people can "get it" even if they are not Of it although not nearly to the same degree of understanding.

[Starchaser107]

If you were at a graduation cermony with your family for a relative of yours and while you were sitting and watching the ceremony a parent of someone else or some strange person comes over and decks your mom in an attempt to knock her out , what would you do?

If Chuck norris stabbed someone that was attacking a close relative of his would the public be more understanding?

What if Colin Powell shot and killed someone who slugged the President. would people cry foul?

[red5angel]

starchaser, what does it matter who did it? The point is that it's imbecilic behaviou, period.

Just for clarification, I don't think anyone here is trying to make it a race thing or even a cultural thing, other then in the context. The subject is a fight at a Vibe Awards show. All of the actions that led up to the fight itself are juvenile and idiotic, period. Doesn't matter who you are, where you grew up, what color your skin is or what you believe in.

[Starchaser107]

I'm in total agreement with you and I'm not trying to justify it or make it a race issue.
All I'm saying is Young Buck did not start the fight. And even though he was wrong I don't know what I would have done were i faced with a situation where some strange person comes out of the blue to assualt me or my friends or family, I don't know if this person is trying to assasinate me or anyone.
It might have been a stupid decision , but it was a decision made on the spot and in the heat of things...
What would you have done?