Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 30 of 30

Thread: teacher/student relationship

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    2,111
    Originally posted by yu shan
    What do you do about students that do this train for a month or so and take a hiatus. Then come back and do all over again... this burns me out.
    If this was becoming a problem for me, and it was disrupting the rest of the class, I would tell them to find another school... one that could accomodate their schedule, and doesn't mind just taking their money. I teach serious students without charge. Non serious students don't get in the group, no matter how much money they have.

    When my senior classmate moved to LA, he would drive up to SF every week to attend class. I had 2 people in my own group for several years that would drive 90 minutes each way to come to work out. (Try driving a stick shift back home with leg cramps after a 4-5 hour workout )

    That said, sometimes you have a student that just can't attend class as often as you both would like. I have one person who is 75 miles away at College. He comes to work out during breaks, and when his course load permits. He's not making much progress right now, so I have him use his time to focus on quality basics.

    When he attends class, I have everybody review some basic material that is suitable for the person who has been away. Then I have the ongoing students work on advanced details and variations of the basics, while the returning student stays with the simpler things. He gets to see a little of the next level material, and he gets to work on stuff that needs work.

    Each time before he leaves for school, I give him some kung fu homework. I show him just one or two things. By that time, he has seen the advanced version of how to do the technique. And while he's away, he's supposed to work on the detailed breakdown of the basics that build into the advanced application. The next time he comes back, he's supposed to show me that he can do exactly as I've shown him.

    Since he doesn't have much time for working out, last time I gave him just 2 things to work on. Jumping down from a chair in a specific way, and a single advancing footwork, done in a very specific way. Sometimes the secret technique is just to practice something the right way, 10,000 times.

    Yu Shan, I think you and I are of the mind that students earn the right to learn new things from the teacher. The teacher doesn't have to show anyone anything. The occasional student can stay on what he needs work on. The rest of the class can work on something that they ready to learn.

    I'll tell the people in my group about how it was with my own teacher so they can learn the "proper" kung fu values and attitude. So they heard about the new student that my teacher liked, because he practiced circle entering footwork for 2 hours straight until his legs were shaking, and he was soaking wet. They heard about the students that my teacher ignored because they stood around and talked instead of practicing. They heard about how we practiced the same application over and over and over, because we knew that if our teacher saw us doing so, eventually he would come over and show us some special advanced detail or technique related to what we were practicing.

    N.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Nashville USA
    Posts
    1,697

    -N-

    Sir I like the way you think. Your students are lucky to have a Shifu like you. I like to think students earn their "new" material. But I should explain more about these that take the hiatus. Some are serious students that seem to drop off the face of the earth, then re-appear. A very few, are very dedicated but seem to have to take time off when-ever they have a life crisis, girlfriend breakup or girlfriend something... etc etc. Some of my young bucks have not learned how to handle females in their lives. Again, I have loads of experience to share. Sometimes they listen. It is the serious student that suddenly leaves that I wonder about. Why can`t they talk to me? I`m a laid back kind of guy. I could never leave my Shifu... period! I guess this generation lacks in their communication skills. FWIW, I have made it known, I will be giving people the boot, for not showing proper respect. Whether it is paying or leaving without speaking to me or even missing training. I feel that I deserve professional students, God knows what I went thru to earn and learn the jewels of KF. This needs to be passed down.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    home
    Posts
    284
    Yushan

    I hav e had serious students leave also. People I thoght would never leave or would only for a good reason after they told me. Not the case.

    I had another student tell me why he thought these few dedicated students left with out a word. He said that these people knew that I trained all day, taught in the evenings and trained more when I got home. They knew it was my whole life besides the family. He thinks that they were to ashamed to face me and tell me that they quit.

    I think that is how the guys who sell the contracts make the money. People would rather pay for 6 months and not go to class than face someone and tell them they quit.

    I tried calling a guy who stopped showing up that I thoght was dedicated and loved kung fu. He acted like I was trying to sell him a cedit card. I will NEVER call a student again. If my seniors like them they usully call. If the person was not well liked they wont get a call.

  4. #19
    Yu Shan
    I am gray and balding, and have found that impermanence is a reality. We must teach because this is what we have chosen to do, like a fish must swim, birds fly. People mature at different times and in different ways, and then some never seem too. Your measure is what you give. You will have these trials as long as your doors are open. Keep your attention on those that carry the truth of our way. There is a difference between martial arts and the way, they do not always coexist, the latter is much harder to grasp than any technique. You keep saying that you can’t understand this behavior; it is not a mater of understanding, but one of acceptance and non-attachment that will lead to your feeling better. Keep up the good work the arts need dedicated teachers like you.
    Peace man

  5. #20
    sayloc--You're theory is the same as mine about seniors flaking off without a word. There have been students who were around before me who I thought were really into gong fu and they just...stop coming to class. They might be ashamed to call.

    I REALLY believe communication is key. I recently had to take a large amount of time off because of an injury, but I kept my shifu updated on my condition and how things were going. Every induvidual time I've had to skip class(school, work, sick)I called my shifu and he says "thanks for calling." Too many students don't do this.
    "If you practice praying mantis, women will like you."--Shi Zheng-Zhong

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Nashville USA
    Posts
    1,697

    Shang Wu

    We were posting at the same time. After reading what my superior had to say, I cancelled my post, it did not matter anymore. What you say has much more meaning to me, thank you. I will learn to accept but to learn non-attachment? These students are like my children. I have bonded spiritually and take these individuals serious. This is why it hurts. How does a teacher become non-attached? Thank you in advance. And I am grey in the dome also, wisdom I only hope! Peace back to you Sir.

    Jim

  7. #22
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    home
    Posts
    284
    Bung Bo

    It sounds like you are a responsible person and value the training that you Instructor shares with you.

    All I ask from my students is to do what they say. If they say they can only come two times a week I can accept that. If they say they are going to be there they had better show up. I take the time to develop a lesson plan for each class according to who is going to be there. If they dont show up or show up late it drives me crazy.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    747
    I would just like to say for you instructors not to overlay your beliefs on your students. By that I mean just because Kung Fu is everything in your life don't assume your students feel the same way. That might tell you it is but they could be telling you what they think (by your words and actions) you want to hear.

    One of the problems I've seen in the past is teachers who have given up everything in their lives for Kung Fu and expect their students to do the same. Then they get angry and disappointed when the student doesn't feel the same way.

    My first Kenpo teacher had a student that I only met once when I started. He wanted to be a singer and he trained in MA. He was a brown belt about to test for black. When the casinos opened up in Atlantic City he landed a singing job there. He quit the school to focus on his career. My teacher got extremely angry at him, kicked him out and said bad things about him.

    As it turned out my teacher was the bass player (and good too) in a band when he was younger. He was also training MA and would miss band practice to train. Finally the rest of the band told him he choose one or the other. He chose MA. Because that was his choice he expected all his students to make the same choice. Most of them didn't. When I left it was the same.

    If you run a commercial school or are charging for lessons you need to let everyone decide their level of participation. That's why they don't contact you about leaving. They're afraid you won't understand. There is such a thing (believe it or not) as being too hard core. What might be a weak excuse to you could be very important to your student.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Right now, I'm not sure where I am.
    Posts
    210

    Question What is a serious student?

    I consider myself a hobbyist at best. I truly love KF but I have a life that does not offer me the luxury of training more then I do. The American dream. I make it to class two to three times a week and generally work out at home once or twice a week to make up for time. I always call when I’m not going to be in, or am going to be late. Have to agree with BungBo open lines of communication is the key. I think that the Sifu student relation is much more then retailer customer relationship, it’s more personal. You pay but your not really a customer, if you are, you need a new Sifu. It may be hard for people to face the fact that they can’t or don’t want to train anymore. Maybe they found something else, PM isn’t for everyone. I don’t understand that myself but I guess we can chalk it up with acceptance. Thing is, it’s hard to tell a MA instructor you want to quit after they train you to never give up. So to speak. I remember reading that it takes about 2000 students to get one good Sifu. So what is the ratio of serious to hobbyist? I know when I left my previous schools I only talk to the one instructor about it and he did put a guilt trip on me. The other schools I just stop going and that was it, no calls, no worries.

    46 You plan your class around your students?



    May your holidays be grand.

    RibHit,
    fm
    RibHit
    “Being fast is fine but accuracy is everything.”
    Wyatt Erupt
    Feeling jumpy!!!
    Thread Killer...>>>
    Tommy M

  10. #25
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    home
    Posts
    284
    Frogman

    How did you know I was 46 years old?

    What is a serious student?

    A serious student is the student who tells me what they want out of the arts and what thier priorities are. Or at least what they think they want. I have people who tell me that they can only come two times a week. I am fine with that. Just try to show up two time a week. Thats all. Let me know if you are going to be missing a week. If they tell me what there priorities are then I can give them the education that they want. I dont believe in trying to teach two person sets to a guy who will only be there two times a week. I will just teach them apps.

    Yes I plan for every class I teach. I see my students as customers. They are paying $$ and deserve the best that I can give them. I sometimes get annoyed when the advanced level guys dont show if I have planned something for them. I dont get that upset though. I just use the prepared class for the next night.

  11. #26
    Yu Shan/Say Loc/Shing Wu

    I was just wondering how large your student base is?

    You make me feel bad about all the times I've missed classes! 4 years ago, I would miss class because I was too lazy to go. Now I miss class only if life supercedes my ability to make it there.


    But I never thought to call unless I was sick or injured.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    home
    Posts
    284
    Not enough. About 75

  13. #28
    sayloc--Wow, 75 seems like a lot to me. But you do this full-time. I value the instruction I have recieved very much. I completely agree what said about pure gold. If I say I'm coming in to class, I will make a very big effort to do what I said. Who knows, someone might be depending on me for something; and if I don't show, they are stood up. Anyway, I don't want the reputation people like that get. I like to be early for class. I think it says a lot about someone if they are late all the time.
    "If you practice praying mantis, women will like you."--Shi Zheng-Zhong

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Nashville USA
    Posts
    1,697
    Kung Fu is not everything to me. I have a full time job and I teach KF at night and on the weekends. I am a husband and father. I have alot of irons in the fire, kung fu is just a hobby. But I do take this hobby very serious, and my students.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    17
    A thousand apologies in advance for my signature verbosity….

    I at no time would want to purport myself as any kind of scholarly pundit on the subject of Eastern martial culture, and count myself as chief amongst the rankest of amateurs of pugilist, as well as a troubling student. However, on the subject of the Western counterpart, and its myriad of letters and methodologies, this I can speak of with less fear of misstep, and herein I think lies a convergence of contradictions that beset the Teacher and Student in this arena.

    Admittedly, fewer people ascribe as many historical and philosophical precepts to their daily life as I do, and this is to their better, as they probably have better social and sex lives than I, owing greatly to this fact. That having been said, I think that chief amongst the pantheon of problems beleaguering the modern Eastern Combative instructor is the philosophical/cultural antithesis that is in play in the structure of martial arts, and the acrimony of thought that is to sub sequentially follow.

    In the notion of the West, that is until more recent times, the combat instructor was akin to a servant, hired out in the same manner as a mercenary, to impart and instruct the people of consequence who would have the where with all to access such learning. It was one of many things that was expected of the upper class, and was given its place in a myriad of disciplines. In fact, the thralls of ancient Rome were more often than not freed slaves with the blood of many on their hands from the sand arena of the gladiatorial games. The master at arms, the war fighter, the duelist, were all relegated to these places, necessary elements, and though lifted higher than the assassin or executioner, they were to be functionaries of the whole society and its various hierarchies.

    Granted, this seldom enters the mind of the average student, however just as in all things that we involve are self in, our ancestors thoughts are carried with us. We live out the bedrock of culture founded before the time of out modern nations.

    The art becomes part of a larger construct of things that we are encouraged to be mindful of, the notion of success, civics, duty, family all these things reaching back far into our Western heritage back to the times of the Caesars, regardless of our European or American addresses. It is a time of social and economical glut that virtually all of us, the conformist and iconoclast alike, are working in concert to unconscious and sleeping social machinations that are as intractable as we are incapable of extricating ourselves from.

    Now conversely, the Eastern combat instructor is operating from a diametrically opposed paradigm, where the notion of singularity of purpose, unfettered attention, and total meditative attention to perfection is the key element. How then does one rectify itself with the other? The problem becomes doubly confounding when the instructors themselves are of Western origin, and are themselves at war with their conditioned nature, as we all are despite our relative levels of understanding.

    True, the general ennui and lack of tenacity is something of a generational peculiarity, a frustrating one to boot, but the root of that is less found in the individual, and more in his sociology. This would account for the dichotomy of the student who says one thing and does another. The conflict is self evident.

    This more than any other reason is the need for the injection of Eastern thought into Western culture. Without the hybrid vigor of this most tenuous of marriages both cultures could slide into their own respective atavistic quagmires.

    The teacher is as important as the priest.

    And at the end of the day, we are all human

    oh and by the way... my main reason for posting this was to make a grand excuse for myself being a truly crappy student (yu shan is a saint, don't let anyone say otherwise), so please just let the geek kid ramble. pay me no mind, and for the love of G-d don't go find any online resources (lexicons, concordances, any such thing) to make me seem like a ripe piker. collegiate philosophy and AP high school Latin was so far in the past for me
    that I'm sure my Socratic method is for the dogs. I really don't want to be pwn3d, so be nice.
    Last edited by devout; 12-21-2004 at 04:36 AM.
    Listen on..... listen on...... This is the truth of it..... fighting leads to killing ... killing gets to waring and that was d**n near the death of us all....... look at us now.... busted up and everyone talking about hard rain...... but we've learned by the dust of 'em all....... Bartertowns learned !!! Now when 2 men get to fighting it happens here..... and it finishes here........ 2 men enter.....1 man leaves..... And right now I got 2 men....... 2 men with a gut full of fear...... Ladies and Gentlemen........ boys and girls....... DYIN' TIMES HERE!!!!!!!!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •