ATT Cerebus and any Lama heads

[HopGar]

Cerebus, his post said I'm right.

Wolfen, from what I recall, pow choy isn't thrown at a 45 degree angle. If you're in a bow stance, as you pivot on the balls of your feet, you bring your back hand up and over in an arc with your whole arm stretched out and hit then go back the way your arm came- that's pow choy. It's a great way to KO someone or at least really hurt their faces. I've never heard of that technique, we usually used it to smash limbs, i.e., knock kicks down, hit the nose, on the way back uppercut and hit whatever you can.

[HopGar]

Oops, I mean't cup choy. sorry.

[diego]

Wolfen, I've seen that elbow drop you are talking about in my style

in a hurry right now but does anyone know the name of this footwork, or train similar to it?

left bow stance facing 3 and you double palm opponent, left claw low to groin and right claw high to face....now your weight shifts back onto the right rear leg, and you swing/pull back your left leg counterclockwise motion to 12, and pivot on your right so you are now in a left cat stance facing 12, and you would do a left tansao/palm up block to the inside of the opp's right arm and slip a left claw to his face...so you attack an opponnent at 3, and then pull back and defend against an opponnent at 12!.

this is from like kaido's 5'th or 6'th set, and he uses this swingbackleg and pivot in some of his technique drills...sound familiar?

[JAZA]

So, is it very similar to CLF?

[CharlesDaCosta]

Boy, it is good to see this thread is still going. I just got a new job (first one in almost a year) so it is been ruff (getting up at 5 am, and getting back home at 7 p.m) the job is a two hour train ride from home.

Also I am starting to teach again so I hope to post more later.

I am wondering, how many sifus have develop short forms (25 tech. at most), and are teaching them instead of the long forms?

I have taught off and on since the early 80's and I have never had a student learn the first from well enough to keep it. And my teacher claims that most White Crane sifus only know the first form.

[cerebus]

I've heard of this happening. Apparently the Hong Kong White Crane Athletic Association shortened and condensed the forms that they taught because they thought that the art might die out since it took so long to learn. I'd be very interested in seeing the old traditional forms and the condensed forms side by side to see what was changed.

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by cerebus
I've heard of this happening. Apparently the Hong Kong White Crane Athletic Association shortened and condensed the forms that they taught because they thought that the art might die out since it took so long to learn. I'd be very interested in seeing the old traditional forms and the condensed forms side by side to see what was changed.

Actually they didnot shorten the forms, at least not noticably -- unless you are talking about after 1990). What the actual "SHORTING" was surposed to be is an elimation of many repeated techniques/parts -- instead of doing a group of techniques 4 times on each side -- doing the group only once on each side.

I trained under them and Pak Hok International Athletic Association from 1979 to the late 80's. I have met white crane stylest from other groups who told me that the first form had been split up into two forms. This is what I am basing my info on.

Now, the change I am talking about is much more drastic, going from 300 (or 400) tactics to about 50 at most. For example: making every line in the old from (including returning to point of orgin) a seperate form. OR making up new ones all together and save the old ones for the execptional students.

[cerebus]

Yeah, that's actually what I meant. I'd heard about the repetitious movements being cut back. About how many empty hand & weapons forms are taught by the association in Hong Kong?

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by cerebus
Yeah, that's actually what I meant. I'd heard about the repetitious movements being cut back. About how many empty hand & weapons forms are taught by the association in Hong Kong?

It has been a while but I think it is the standard 24 forms plus others if you have the time and .... (very few know all 24, in fact, I hear that most Sifus today only know the first form).

[cerebus]

Someone can become a sifu knowing just the first form? What form is this and how long is it?

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by cerebus
Someone can become a sifu knowing just the first form? What form is this and how long is it?

We call it recipricating steps (enter & exit steps) I forgot the Chinese name. Our version has about 350 to 400 moves (training it every day for about two hours a day -- I learned it in 3 months -- but it was slopy) -- I heard it normally takes 2 solid years to learn, and some take 3.

Some of the other school (or Feds) have divided it into 2 forms.

I should add that in most schools, you had to trained for 3 to 5 years before you were taught the form. I don't know how it is today. I try to teach to all that pass the first real test. That is not based on how long you have been with me.

[Sima Bai]

Charles - which of the HK White Crane guys does yur stuff come from? My very first MA was from a disciple of Kwong Benfu.

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by Sima Bai
Charles - which of the HK White Crane guys does yur stuff come from? My very first MA was from a disciple of Kwong Benfu.

I can't remember off the top of my head but the name was something like (Ngar Yak tong, I think is the spelling -- I am about a third or 4th Generation from him -- I think - it has been a few years since this question was posed).

If you really want to know, correctly, I could email my Sifu (he is a professor at Hong Kung Univ. so he is easy to find).

Also, if http://www.geocities.com/whitecranefist/index.htm has updated their lineage chart, it will be there. I sent it to him a few years ago.

[diego]

hey yall, i just got a 5month free rec pass from my work, and gonna go swimming a lot!!!

don't lift weights, but i'm gonna take full advantage of their facilities, and i'm curious what yall TKF stylists would work on in your weight lifting routine...i'm thinking don't worry about the pec's as pushups cover those nice, so i'm gonna work on building my back and neck and legs...back and legs cuz that's where the seed fists come from and work in general, and neck cuz well if you got a big neck it's hard to knock you out in general...prolly won't even do too much bicep and tricep work, just gonna burn the forearms and hands so i got a tighter tool to punch you with...lol i'm gonna look like a freak big legs and back and neck, small chest and upper arms etc.......i'm just gonna focus on those areas from a body builders perspective, but of course do overall full body strengh conditioning, and hella gonna work the treadmill...what do yall do to enhance your lama style?

[cerebus]

Aaaah. Mr. DaCosta, that would be Ngai Yoh Tong. From what I understand, he was the chief instructor for the Hong Kong White Crane Athletic Association in the 70s/ 80s. Is he still alive and teaching?