Joy wrote:
More nonsense:
Second, I'm sure Emin's "anti-grappling system" has merit but it's not "pure" or "traditional" WCK, it's his personal system that combines WCK and grappling.
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(((The conclusion is already confirmed in the premise- darned if you do- darned if you dont---
**I have a WCK student that was a Div. 1, NCAA, varsity wrestler. The fact that he can fight on the ground has nothing to do with his WCK skills (he could do that, like Boztepe, before he came to WCK).
**Joy, as an example, WCK will not help you escape (or survive) the mount or the guard against anyone good, it doesn't give us those tools. The bridge, elbow-escape, shrimping, knowledge of submissions (so we don't get caught in them), etc. aren't in our WCK toolbox. Nor do we have the tools that will permit us to take advantage of the mount (the submisions, associate body movements, etc.) or pass their guard. Yip Man did not teach groundfighting, nor did YKS/Sum or any other traditional source. Moreoever, even with those tools, it takes hundreds of hours of practice (live grappling with resisting, skilled opponents) to develop it significantly. Who in WCK does that?
"WCK is no good on the ground.
If you develop defenses on the ground it must not be wck---
must be something personal and not pure and smuggled from previous experience.
Therefore, wck is no good on the ground."
**If a WCK practitioner gets knocked to the ground, sure there are things they can do, like kick or punch, etc. A boxer would do that too! But that doesn't mean boxing has groundfighting. Neither boxing or WCK is a groundfightng method, neither really prepares us for dealing with good groundfighters. Experience will prove that. Having a few things one can try does not make one a competant groundfighter. Similarly, BJJ has some stand-up that enables them to try and survive until they can get the take down, but it no one would say BJJ hascompetant stand-up -- they don't have the tools, they don't train stand-up, etc.
A different view---
Spend quality time in learning wing chun. Practice. Experiment gradually in keeping with development stage.
**That begs the question of how can one determine what quality WCK is? By theory? Reputation? Ability to do chi sao well?
Wing chun takes quality time in learning- more to it than the sequences in forms.
Practice not being taken to the ground. Develop a live strong but flexible
stance and mobility. If taken to the ground play your own game rather than out envisioning out-grappling a grappler. Learn wing chun attack lines well. Sense the balance points and use the platforms for power delivery that open up whenever they do. You need to sense these things.
Be relaxed. Develop control. And deliverable short power
from all possible angles for strikes or pre strike controls.
The wing chun engine can work with and use many gears and clutches and transmissions of power delivery..
**This is all theory -- and sounds like "trust in the force, Luke": it sounds great, but it won't work. Let's see evidence of your approach rather than theory. There's a reason we don't see the evidence: because things won't work like that. Go visit a good groundfighter and see for yourself. Have them take the mount and see what you can do. Have them put you in the guard and see what you can do. You don't need to take my word for it. (But I would be willing to put some money on it.).
Madame wing chun, Leung Jan, Ip Man and "your"momma
(or Couture or Lidell)wont help you- but your understanding
of wing chun, self confidence and guts could..
Be at peace with yourself- depending on time and place
all kinds of bad luck can occur besides the appearance of
someone interested in taking you to the ground.
Gradually build up your wing chun skills- the chances are slim that you will be attacked by Rickson at the street corner
tomorrow.
**Very true, but you do stand the chance of being taken down and put in a head-and-arm or mounted by someone that has some high school wrestling (and who has watched a UFC and thinks "gound-and-pound" is great), and if you don't have the skills, you'll find yourself unable to cope. Just try getting out of a solid standing headlock that some strong guy slaps on you and you'll see WCK's limits (and if you think you'll "grab the peaches" or "poke the eyes", it's because you never had someone that knew what to do put a headlock on you -- you'll never get the chance).
Not just theory but no chest thumping on "experience" either- thank you. And- i am not in the marketing business.
BTW- directed at those seriously interested in wing chun
and not directed at wc skeptics and trolls.
**I'm not a "WC skeptic" but a WCK realist -- it's fine and dandy to have beliefs, it's another thing to step up and test them. Of course, everyone is highlyskilled behind closed doors. The bottom line is no WCK person without grappling experience has ever been able to deal with a good groundfighter on the ground. I'm not saying everyone should study groundfighting. If you don't want to do it, don't. If you don't want to be a well-rounded fighter, that's fine. You can be really good at WCK without having any ground game.
If you dont have enough confidence in wing chun- its ok to
find somethong that you can use. Conquer fear- there is life before and after wing chun ( or grappling).
Develop awareness, preparation, best possible good health rather than paranoia.
**Lots of people have confidence because they are deluded. And some claim to have confidence. But what I don't understand is that if they are so confident, why the reluctance to put themselves in positions to prove what they believe?
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