The crappy state of Kung fu

[MantisFistMonk]

I almost forgot to mention.

I hear what you are saying and I also agree for the most part.

[Wharg0ul]

Originally posted by FatherDog


"You may kick my ass on your own, just trying to knock me out or submit me, but if you get five of your friends and try to /kill/ me, I'll kick some serious ass!"

Please.

How ignorant of you. I say ignorant because you obviously have no idea that I spar multiple opponants DAILY. You also have no idea how often I win or lose fights, much less how I do in one on one sparring.

The whole point is that learning forms and technique is fine. But if you don't actually USE those skills, what good does it do?

Mu Kung-Fu is more than "flowery fists and embroidered kicks". It works. I KNOW it works, because I use it on a regular basis against fighters from my own system and others.

I have to agree with what someone said above me. It's not the system, it's the student. It's all in how you use what you've learned, and weather you do at all.

[Wharg0ul]

Originally posted by joedoe
Yeah, but they actually want to be on their arse - that is where BJJ is strongest

aye....as long as you don't go down there with them Personally I use hit-and-fade tactics against them...I hate grappling }:P

[Mr. Horse]

I am not saying BJJ or MMA is better. However, they are winning in the ring. People say that the rules are not geared towards kung fu. That is true, but when the UFC started, there were only a few rules. The few KF fighters that entered were distroyed. Of course, we say that they were not good examples of KF fighters.

I like KF. I liked it since I was a child, but it doesn't look good now.

[Akhilleus]

Wow…I just want to say that this is my favorite thread…nay, my favorite THING ever! Mr. Horse got us off to an incredible start (I’ve heard talk of a Nobell Prize)…all that remains to be seen is which phrase from this thread will I take as my new sig…since there are so many gems to choose from…

What are we doing?

Wasting time.

Kung fu is full of such bull, that I am about to blow my top.

Sir, may I be the first to congratulate you on holding out for as long as you have.

I have read many things and listened to masters speak of this great power: an almost magical power of kung fu.

Aahhh…those were the days…sigh…when the animals could talk and hermits would "teach pigs to dance, and horses to fly.” The days of Aslan...

There are stories about past masters doing this and breaking that

Dude: warn me next time you are going to post something like this so I can empty my bladder ahead of time…

i am swtiching to bjj…on second thought, I'll just practice harder.

Sounds good…I trust that your practice includes takedown defenses? Hint: ever considered doing both? Oh I'm bad, I'm terrible...

There's a lot of BJJ fighters in this town, and they all brag that "BJJ fighters are the best in teh world." yet every time I spar one, they end up on their ass before they realise what happened.

Thank you for redeeming kung fu and regaining some respect for us kung fu guys….can you please videotape the next time you spar one of these bjj guys? It sounds like it happens pretty frequently, do you think you could have a clip up by, oh say, saturday? Thanks...There are plenty of clips of BJJ guys submitting tcma guys…let’s even the score!

The problem is that we don't live in war-torn ancient China. We don't get attacked by groups of people trying to kill us,

I agree…that is a huge PROBLEM

so we have no opportunity to see the awesome power of our art the way it was meant to be used.

Right. But we know it’s there…because Sensei told us…

"flowery fists and embroidered kicks"

I too enjoy reading Master Wong Kiew Kit's books in my spare time...I also enjoy listening to music, such as CCR’s “Who’ll stop the Rain”

[Becca]

Originally posted by Mr. Horse
... Kung fu has been around for a very long time. It should have an advantage over the newer arts, because it had a longer time to fine tune its concepts. However, it is not the case...

Why? The style is like a book. If you read the book and misquote it, does that make the author of the book an eyot? I think not...

Blaming all kung fu for the failing on a few arts is 'tarded. That's like saying all blond/blue-eyed germans are bad 'cause Hitler favored them over all others for his Arian Nation.

Shut up and go train. You want to see kung fu on the top of the competeing world? Go compete. BTW, there have been many TCMA fighters over the years who have become very well known. But I guess that don't cound since it was pre-MMA craze.

[MasterKiller]

Kung-Fu is an art for defence. It's not a sport. That's why we have boxing and wrestling and the like....they were developed for entertainment.

Yeah...So I guess wrestling being the oldest documented form of Kung Fu kinda shoots a hole in your argument, huh?

[SPJ]

Traditional Thai MA includes MT. Traditional MT used in the ring evolved into sports MT.

JJ divided or evolved into Aikido, Judo and BJJ.

JJ was influenced or "came" from CMA.

Let us see. MMA=MT+BJJ. CMA-->JJ-->BJJ-> sports BJJ.

The moon came from the earth. The earth came from the Sun.

Brother looked at the moon at nite and said it is the brightest and biggest star in the sky. The moon was so happy and said very much so, I am bigger and brighter than the earth and the Sun.

Knowing the moon was only reflecting the ray from the sun, Moi said I wondered where the moon is during the daytime. The overcast of the earth may cover the moon. Oh it is called eclipse. The overcast of the moon covers the whole earth???

Brother, moi, the earth and the Sun were all confused.

[Hitman]

This is the question I asked Sifu Duncan Leung:


Is it possible for anyone to tell me why most wing chun practitioners cannot apply what they have learnt in touranments or in a fight? Some of them are instructors. I am refering to their abillity of applying what they have learnt in the class and not about their fighting skills in winning trophies. I know that I cannot apply my wing chun skill in a fight, because I was not taught properly. However, after seeing some of the other wing chun practitioners from different organisations fighting in touranments and performing in their classes. I have convinced that they too have not being taught properly or were too lazy.
Wing Chun is a very good fighting art as demonstrated by the practitioners in 1950s, but today many organistions are teaching a very dilluted version Wing Chun compared to what was being taught in the 1950s. Why is this?
Why is the traditional version of Wing Chun not being taught apart from fearing losing customers due to hard and boring training sessions.
I thought the quality of good teachers are based on the quality of their students. If the standard of the students are poor, than the teachers are bad, even if they are undefeated world champions. This is because they cannot pass on their knowledge to their students. It is their teaching methods that I am questioning?
Why has the tested method being change so much that we are now seeing poor Wing Chun students being produced all the time? If this is allow to continue than the students will always remain poor students forever.


Sifu Duncan Leung's reply (a very good wing chun teacher who can use wing chun in fighting)


The situation you are describing is the difference between academic theory and practical application. The only way to learn application is to use it in real-life situations repeatedly and under varying conditions (i.e., when you do not know what your opponent is going to throw at you) until reactions become automatic, and you instinctively know how to adapt to different opponents and strategies. In the old days, we actually fought -- in the streets, with rival martial arts studios. That is, today, not practical. But, the principle can be adapted.

I can expalin to you how to ride a bicycle -- turn the handlebars left, turn them right, etc. But, until you climb on the bike and fall down a few times, and get the 'feel' of it for yourself, you do not know how to ride a bike.

Let me reiterate the four fundamental elements that are necessary to the successful learning of Wing Chun, as specified by my Sifu, Yip Man:

1. Desire: an intense desire to acquire the art.

2. Guts and stamina: the willingness and ability to take the pain and punishment that accompany the learning process.

3. Time: I practiced 6 hours a day, 7 days a week for over four years to learn applied Wing Chun.

4. Money: most teachers need to make a living.

Interestingly, innate talent is not really essential, but the above characteristics are. Without these, it is impossible to become really good. And, in today's world, very few students possess these four qualities.



Hitman

[Wharg0ul]

it's interesting to see that some people here don't bother reading or understanding posts before they reply. Makes you wonder if they really listen to their instructor, or if they are too busy thinking about how cool they are.

And MK, were you there when Kung-Fu was developed? From what I've read of anthropologist reports, early man at first studied the actions of other predators in an attempt to hunt more effectively. Eventually of course conflict arose between other human hunters, thus the need for self-defence. I can't picture a cave-dwelling man wrestling a deer or whatever to the ground and waiting for it to tap

However, it has been noted that around 1520 bc, that wrestling existed in ancient China, as derived from a type or ritualised event where participants wore animal horns on their heads, and would attempt to throw each other to the ground.

Akhilleus...warn me next time when your about to post. I felt my IQ drop just from reading that non-sense.

[Wharg0ul]

Originally posted by Hitman

The situation you are describing is the difference between academic theory and practical application. The only way to learn application is to use it in real-life situations repeatedly and under varying conditions (i.e., when you do not know what your opponent is going to throw at you) until reactions become automatic, and you instinctively know how to adapt to different opponents and strategies. In the old days, we actually fought -- in the streets, with rival martial arts studios. That is, today, not practical. But, the principle can be adapted.

I can expalin to you how to ride a bicycle -- turn the handlebars left, turn them right, etc. But, until you climb on the bike and fall down a few times, and get the 'feel' of it for yourself, you do not know how to ride a bike.

Let me reiterate the four fundamental elements that are necessary to the successful learning of Wing Chun, as specified by my Sifu, Yip Man:

1. Desire: an intense desire to acquire the art.

2. Guts and stamina: the willingness and ability to take the pain and punishment that accompany the learning process.

3. Time: I practiced 6 hours a day, 7 days a week for over four years to learn applied Wing Chun.

4. Money: most teachers need to make a living.

Hitman

EXACTLY!

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Wharg0ul
And MK, were you there when Kung-Fu was developed? From what I've read of anthropologist reports, early man at first studied the actions of other predators in an attempt to hunt more effectively. Eventually of course conflict arose between other human hunters, thus the need for self-defence. I can't picture a cave-dwelling man wrestling a deer or whatever to the ground and waiting for it to tap

Do you practice killing deers in class by kicking them in the knee cap and gouging their eyes out?

However, it has been noted that around 1520 bc, that wrestling existed in ancient China, as derived from a type or ritualised event where participants wore animal horns on their heads, and would attempt to throw each other to the ground.

Celts wrestled. Greeks wrestled. Chinese wrestled. Mongolians wrestled. Native Americans wrestled. Africans wrestled...

[Pork Chop]

fight more
train to fight
fight people you don't like
fight people you don't know
and if there are any doubts
just fight

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Mr. Horse
I am not saying BJJ or MMA is better. However, they are winning in the ring. People say that the rules are not geared towards kung fu. That is true, but when the UFC started, there were only a few rules. The few KF fighters that entered were distroyed. Of course, we say that they were not good examples of KF fighters.

I like KF. I liked it since I was a child, but it doesn't look good now.

principles - not techniques. If you can adapt your principles to the mma ruleset - which shouldn't be that hard - then there should be no problem. Most of your techniqes won't need to be adapted anyway.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Spar. Spar. Spar. Spar some more.

I say this because it sounds like you need to work on application. There's a lot of BJJ fighters in this town, and they all brag that "BJJ fighters are the best in teh world." yet every time I spar one, they end up on their ass before they realise what happened.

And how do they fight multiple opponants?

Realise....Kung-Fu is not meant to be used on one opponant. It is designed to take down multiple assailants as quickly and efficiently as possible. As such, it's not a good ring sport. How many Kung-Fu fighters would be welcome to compete if all their opponants had to be carried out of the ring? One good white crane flick to the neck can kill an attacker.

The problem is that we don't live in war-torn ancient China. We don't get attacked by groups of people trying to kill us, so we have no opportunity to see the awesome power of our art the way it was meant to be used.

Kung-Fu is an art for defence. It's not a sport. That's why we have boxing and wrestling and the like....they were developed for entertainment.

As far as mystical claims....well, I can't tell you, because I havn't spent 20 years of my life poking my finger at a bell, etc. But practically speaking, good knowledge of pressure points and internal strikes can produce some pretty "magical" results.

Hope you keep training, but if not, good luck.

I thought people stopped posting BS like this years ago...