Is Master Pel Typical ?

[Wang Rui Xuan]

Shirkers - Sent you a PM.

Wang Rui Xuan

[shirkers1]

Wang, right back at ya.

mark

[Mi Hou Tao]

disclaimer: "In my opinion"
With so much discussion about Master Pel, its difficult as a student to stand back and watch others say bad things about your master, and i guess this is true for any student of martial arts or perhaps any discipline for that matter.
As a student of Master Pel for almost 1 year, i feel i have an opinion.
"In my opinion" from my training with Master Pel, i have found him to be simply outstanding, as a person and a kung fu teacher, helping me with things in life and in kung fu. He has no care for money or fame from kung fu, but purely enjoys the art, and cares for its future, and doesnt have the time to travel to numerous locations, just to inform people who are curious of his skills. He knows his skills and feels no need to show them off to people he has never met. He has high standards, which, as his student, I am truly grateful for, because if he didnt, I know i wouldnt be half the practitioner I am(although ive only started on the path).
Is Master Pel Typical? , "In my opinion", definately not. He has completed training under 2 masters, and every time I see him perform anything, not only am i amazed, but I also realize that unless i give 110%effort in training everyday for a long time, I will never come close.
So, once again "In my opinion" , make your own decision. Read about Master Pel, and what he has to say, If possible, come to meet him and train, and make your own decision.

[David Jamieson]

disclaimer: "In my opinion"
With so much discussion about Master Pel, its difficult as a student to stand back and watch others say bad things about your master, and i guess this is true for any student of martial arts or perhaps any discipline for that matter.
As a student of Master Pel for almost 1 year, i feel i have an opinion.
"In my opinion" from my training with Master Pel, i have found him to be simply outstanding, as a person and a kung fu teacher, helping me with things in life and in kung fu. He has no care for money or fame from kung fu, but purely enjoys the art, and cares for its future, and doesnt have the time to travel to numerous locations, just to inform people who are curious of his skills. He knows his skills and feels no need to show them off to people he has never met. He has high standards, which, as his student, I am truly grateful for, because if he didnt, I know i wouldnt be half the practitioner I am(although ive only started on the path).
Is Master Pel Typical? , "In my opinion", definately not. He has completed training under 2 masters, and every time I see him perform anything, not only am i amazed, but I also realize that unless i give 110%effort in training everyday for a long time, I will never come close.
So, once again "In my opinion" , make your own decision. Read about Master Pel, and what he has to say, If possible, come to meet him and train, and make your own decision.

ya see, now you have a 'legitimate' point of view because of how you wrapped it up!

sweeeet and good enough for me.

[cerebus]

Well, I've read some of the posts that Pel himself wrote on the Mantis board way back when, and I really can't say I like him too much. One of his posts initially came across looking as if he were complementing Lee Kam Wing (his former instructor with whom he had a"falling out" and who he uses every opportunity to bad-mouth), but as I read further it became clear that it was actually a back-handed insult so that it made out that master Lee was a liar and fraud while Pel was was all innocent and not meaning any such thing (though it was blatently obvious that he knew exactly what he was doing). That was just slimy. If you're going to insult someone, come right out and do it. Don't be a sneaking, mincer about it. That really lowered my opinion of Pel as a person, regardless of any ability he may have as an instructor.

[Redfish]

I went back to that site after reading Cerebus' post.

I read the 'statements' Link to statements

They all seem to have well thought out points, deal with issues and provide evidence, often photos proving the links and claims. The statements don't contain any name calling or bad language either.

I don't think you can offer this kind of thing as a valid point against him "Well It's not very positive" or "I don't like the way he did it" ..that's meaningless.

What part of the statements do you disagree with and why?

BUT but but ..what's the actually point of the thread here - the first post says that Master Pel betrayed his teachers and that it may be typical behaviour of 'westerners'?

Seems to me that Lamakwoklee can post outrageous racist sterotypes and accusations on here about a person he hardly knows and only one person even mentioned it let alone take him up on the point. But the likes of cerebus are more concerned with whether Master Pel is "nice" or not!

On the other hand, the statements on the site are well documented and reasonable.

What are people drinking over on the mantis board, I wonder?

[cerebus]

LOL! Well buddy "Nice" has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of martial arts instructors out there who aren't "nice", but I can respect them because they're honest and straightforward. If you have no problem with respecting someone who is back-biting, sneaking and two-faced in what they say about others, then that's your problem. I don't respect people like that myself. Pel is supposed to be such a great guy but all the evidence I've seen points to just the opposite. Maybe you like those traits about him. If so, then good for you. I'm sure the two of you will be very happy together.

[shirkers1]

The original subject brought up by lama was what actually goes on in the real world..... He's not the rasist and his coments weren't racist. Bottom line is the CMA community in general are very biased on who they teach. You have a few gems out there that want their art to live on so they'll teach who ever is capable of learning, white, black, yellow, or brown. Lama's statement was that finally a foreigner is brought into the fold of the CMA and what transpired could be taken very negatively by some people and not want to train foreigners because of that.

Then the issue of this thread moved from the mantis forum sparked who Pel was. There were many negative posts and a few positive posts by pel. Do a search and read his posts for yourself. I agree with cerebus that even though good points are made in his articles and posts. There still is an underlying negative feel to his comments.

I prefer coke over pepsi if you really want to know what I'm drinking.

[Redfish]

Shirkers, Just becuase you say "It's not Racist" doesn't mean that all the facts will dissapear. Racism is not only limited to name calling.

His post implies that it's foriegners who typically betray their Chinese masters. I'd say that Chinese people leave their Chinese teachers or fall out with them and that 'westerners' (whatever that particluar stereotype actually means) also leave 'western' teachers'. It's not dependant on your ethnicity.

You said: "Lama's statement was that finally a foreigner is brought into the fold of the CMA and what transpired could be taken very negatively by some people and not want to train foreigners because of that. "

That statement is loaded with racist assumptions. The Chinese Martial Arts are the preserve of ethnically Chinese people. There are millions of people with Chinese nationality who know nothing about Kungfu. It only depends on who trains it.

If a 'westerner' fell out with his teacher who is Chinese - to then draw the conclusion that you should be careful with other 'westerners' is illogical and racist.

Also, since CMA were developed in China then it goes that a large majority of teachers will be ethnically Chinese. For them to think that it somehow 'belongs' to people who are 'chinese' is also racist. It's like when some one from America goes on about Japan playing baseball and copying them.

So here's the answer to the question in the post - is it typical?

It's only typical in the sense that a lot of students across the board leave their teachers with bad feelings - but it's not typical that a 'westerner' will 'betray' a Chinese master.

"Coke over pepsi": I felt the force of your Fisher Price "My First Sarcasm" there.

PS Cerebus: You will say those things about master Pel after reading a post you don't like (back-biting, sneaking and two-faced). Seems like you've met him. Also, it's still irrelevant ... just go back to the last post and insert you're latest insults over 'nice'.

[cerebus]

LOL! Uuuuuh, yeah. Make sense much? If an instructor's character is irrelevant to you, fine. Like I said, I'm sure you're very happy together. Enjoy.

[Hungfutkune]

I have been away from this forum for a while since I moved back to Canada, but it still amazes me how people can make character opinions on people they haven't met. I too have read the past statements and have visited Mr. Pel's site, but I have also met the man personally. I see nothing wrong in a healthy debate of technique and history. Those statements are all well formed and have evidence to back most of the statements. I must also add after meeting Mr. Pel during my stay in Shanghai i found him to be nothing less then a gentleman and a very proficient Mantis Master, who is not motivated by money or ego, but the passing on of TRADITIONAL Kung Fu.

In regards to Chinese taking on western students who in the future might betray their sifus. I know that this statement was not meant to come across as racist but it shouldn't matter where the student is from. I have seen many Chinese people who have betrayed Chinese Masters, does that mean that the chinese masters might consider not teaching to Chinese students anymore.

Also, there is lots of talk about students who have betrayed their master. Has anyone ever stopped to think about Masters who have betrayed their students.

Keep an open mind, love life and train hard!!!
nuff said!!!

[shirkers1]

Redfish... I was going to let it go but what the hell does.."I felt the force of your fisher price.... my first sarcasm" mean?

[Redfish]

Shirkers ..sorry, let me explain ...

Fisher Price is a company who makes kid's toys. They are aimed at very young children and are often called "My First ..... " ..for example "My First cookery set" ..or "My First car" ...

I assumed that the company and the joke was known is the USA cos I heard it used on a Wutang Clan CD "Look at your Fisher Price "My First Timberlands"

The implication being that your witty remarks or comebacks or whatever you call them are , in fact, annoying and juvenile.

[shirkers1]

OH okay yeah thanks for the clear up. See in order for a joke to be funny everyone has to get it. So when you throw out some weak shiat like that it's hard for any one to think it's funny or see it as a joke. I asked because that sounded like something a pedophile would say… and it concerned me that I was having a conversation with a sick person. But since I’m juvenile maybe that’s why I didn’t get it…. Or maybe it’s because I don’t have 14 kids and listen to Wu Tang Clan. I guess we’ll never know. Wow who is the labeling people now? Not all Americans have 12 illegitimate kids and listen to rap.

In response to your smart asssss comment “what are people drinking over on the mantis board.. I wonder”? My coke comment wasn’t meant to be sarcastic. I don’t drink alcohol and I prefer coke so I was just giving you the facts since you asked.

[Jhapa]

BTL runs a strict forum. Anything that goes off topic will be locked, and topics with a potential to be severely unpertinent to the forum will be moved.

maybe we should have an off topic forum