Weird observation about the New Pope

[Zaveesha]

It was on NBC the day after his passing - they had a 30 min special on him. said that he grew up close knit in a jewish community, or around a bunch of them, at least.

That's right he grew up and lived in a town where there was a jewish community ( nothing special at that time in Poland - in opposition to current situation e.g. I have never seen a jewish person face to face. Pre-war Poland's around 20 % population was Jewish , however I am not sure of that ). He had jewish friends, jewish school mates, his father even was renting an apartament from a jewish guy - but does that make Karol Wojtyła make him a Jew ? come on man -let's folow the facts.

There is a big difference in having jewish community around and converting. Your logic seems strange.

Other then that - respect.

[ZIM]

The Egyptians are going on about John-Paul II secretly converting to Islam prior to his death.

[TonyM.]

Must have something to do with the twisted cross.

[ZIM]

Must have something to do with the twisted cross.

Nah...they say that 1] he had earth used in his funeral service, which is a muslim custom, 2] he had his papers destroyed to prevent anyone finding out, and 3] something else that was equally pretty dumb...

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Living around jews does not a jew make.

you have to be raised in the tradition to be a jew.

your parents have to be a jew for you to be a jew.

if you convert you're doing it for your children. you are still an outsider and your children may not be treated as outsiders if they're born into it. if they weren't born into the community then they are converts, too.

any jew that accepts the role of Cardinal is no longer a Jew. I know of a guy whom Pope JPII was facinated by who was a jew. the two talked about the jew becoming a Cardinal. the jew refused as it would constitue a distinct shirking of his responsibility to his heritage. the pope died never having converted the jew.

a cultural note about the dirt in the coffin:

it's not just an islamic thing. throughout the middle east long before the advent of monotheism animistic peoples would place a large stone on the chest of the deceased so that when the chest rotted away the dirt/stone would fall in creating a foreign body which the spirit would be trapped under or around since it would be unable to remove a heavy stone in its center. or something like that. another varieant is that stone are placed on the lid of the carcophagus to keep it from opening. embedded in monotheisms of the middle east is an ancient animist religion of which the burial right is only a small portion.

[HopGar]

While I dunno about the whole emperor thing, I feel obliged to correct a few things about Judaism.

"Living around jews does not a jew make. you have to be raised in the tradition to be a jew. your parents have to be a jew for you to be a jew. if you convert you're doing it for your children. you are still an outsider and your children may not be treated as outsiders if they're born into it. if they weren't born into the community then they are converts, too. any jew that accepts the role of Cardinal is no longer a Jew. I know of a guy whom Pope JPII was facinated by who was a jew. the two talked about the jew becoming a Cardinal. the jew refused as it would constitue a distinct shirking of his responsibility to his heritage. the pope died never having converted the jew."

Mostly right, not all. Judaism does not recognize converts to other religions. Being Jewish is based on the mother, whether she is Jewish or not. If your mom is Jewish, so are you. The father's lineage decides what tribe you're part of. We generally try to discourage converts, because, hey, why would you want to be part of the most disliked group of people in the world (quite blatantly shown by JohnnyMnemonic and some of his ignorant statements about Jews.) If someone decides they want to convert and do, we generally accept them with open arms and they are immediately considered as part of the nation. Just because Katz is a common Jewish last name doesn't mean that the the pope was Jewish. (there have been Jewish popes before.) Katz is germanic as far as I know, but alot of Jewish names were shortened when Jews came to America, so anything is possible.

Before WWII/ the holocaust, there was a massive Jewish community in Poland, most of which was obliterated by the nazis. Mostly Chassidic.

The Israeli left does have a major case of stockholm syndrome.

Johnny, there is no conspiracy to destroy the catholic church even if they're responsible for a huge amount of violence against the Jews over the centuries. Take your veiled anti-semitism elsewhere.

Peace dudes

[ZIM]

Hop Gar-

Hope you are having a good Passover. Don't have too much Matzoh Foo Young.

[HopGar]

Thanks. More like overdose on it...... and we've already done that!

peace

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

If someone decides they want to convert and do, we generally accept them with open arms and they are immediately considered as part of the nation.

Johnny, there is no conspiracy to destroy the catholic church even if they're responsible for a huge amount of violence against the Jews over the centuries. Take your veiled anti-semitism elsewhere.

Peace dudes

the ideal and the reality (at least in communities with a larger older population) are far from each other. remember they are less accepting of new people or even slightly different styles of judaism for a reason. plus there's a generational difference. and the differences between the three oragisational philosophies.

butter milk and honey flow from a rock. other times, just hot water...or dust.

[ZIM]

Conversion to Judaism & acceptance is a difficult thing. IIRC, there's actually some Talmudic law covering it [the term for them is ger? Can't remember] and its a matter of what rights and obligations they have. Status within the Law.

I'm not sure where Christians fit in with that model, if at all. I know we're not [suwr?] enemies, but we don't have the same status, either.

We're like complete heretics but a loophole, maybe. We believe some outlandish, hilarious things by comparison. We're like followers of ONE Rabbi who mistook the punchlines for the teachings....

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

We believe some outlandish, hilarious things by comparison. We're like followers of ONE Rabbi who mistook the punchlines for the teachings....

wow. never thought i'd hear that from someone i assumed was islamic.

well, at least you have something in common with the christians.

did any of you heretical monotheists ever actually read the hebrew cannon in your native language?

[ZIM]

wow. never thought i'd hear that from someone i assumed was islamic.

Boy, did you assume wrong.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Boy, did you assume wrong.