Ho Chun

[Dale Dugas]

MC Busman,

You came into this convo and started dropping bombs filled with politicobabble and obvious distaste for the way GM Chicoine is running the ISCA. You seem to think that deflecting my questions and wrapping them up with lots of quotes and seemingly snappy retorts can cover that up.

No big deal as I don't care a toss about you. Why should I? Your not a brother in my school nor a member of my family. Do not be one of these losers who posts all the time and obviously would rather live on the net than live life.

Did you find what you were seeking when your were asking questions on Fee Mon Ong in earlier posts as well as getting into politicobabble sessions with the other infants who infest the net. You too can look up my old posts too and see what I have been doing as well.

You can deflect all you want. You started throwing out the problems you are having with the ISCA. So what? Are you in any position to change them? Do you have the ability to do this? If not, then why give a crud. Better to train in your material and ignore the trouble that you perceive.

Do you train enough? I do. It eats most of my free time.

I am not angry. Life is too short to be angry.

Your very dissillusioned with the ISCA. Who cares.


In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[M.C. Busman]

You came into this convo and started dropping bombs filled with politicobabble and obvious distaste for the way GM Chicoine is running the ISCA. You seem to think that deflecting my questions and wrapping them up with lots of quotes and seemingly snappy retorts can cover that up.

Dale, you have sidestepped and tried to turn my posts into ad hominem attacks at every step. You've tried to turn an introspective discussion into a battle, and failed miserably. Not every person who disagrees with you is your enemy. Responding to a question does require careful consideration and deliberation, which is why I recommended you read things carefully through and consider what is written before jumping to the wrong conclusion.

No big deal as I don't care a toss about you. Why should I? Your not a brother in my school nor a member of my family. Do not be one of these losers who posts all the time and obviously would rather live on the net than live life.

Well, you evidently care enough to write and keep posting. You're not a member of my family either, and I'd recommend you take your own advice rather than ineffectively slinging it at people who don't need it.

Did you find what you were seeking when your were asking questions on Fee Mon Ong in earlier posts [....]

Yes. With the contacts I made at that time, I did some travelling and got two interviews and some decent photographs from family and line students--some righteous historical info I'm trying to put into the proper perspective right now before I share it. Have fun looking up all my old posts here and elsewhere. You'll be quite busy and learn plenty about history

You can deflect all you want. You started throwing out the problems you are having with the ISCA. So what? Are you in any position to change them? Do you have the ability to do this? If not, then why give a crud. Better to train in your material and ignore the trouble that you perceive.

I can't deflect what isn't on target, Dale . You haven't made a whole lot of sense with your rabbiting on about politicobable and such--you have an opinion, and you're trying to turn it into reality. What gave you the idea that I was trying to change or influence anything---especially SC?! People frequently observe situations and discuss them...This situation is nothing different, and I fail to see why it has you so distracted and defensive. I didn't post that stuff on the ISCA site, and I didn't create the situation.

Do you train enough? I do. It eats most of my free time.

I don't discuss that on a first date, Dale. I'd recommend you stop worrying about ME. I'm a believer in self-discipline and hard training myself, and practice what I preach.

I am not angry. Life is too short to be angry.

Got that right!

Your very dissillusioned with the ISCA. Who cares.

Yeah. It's too bad. Hopefully it will change in the future. People who don't care needn't involve themselves in the discussion, I suppose...


Happiness,

M.C. Busman

[M.C. Busman]

If an individual makes an extraordinary public claim, it is fair to ask for more information, or evidence. These questions are not meant as an attack. I do not intend that this query be read with a tone of sarcasm or doubt.

For a long time we've had relatively easy access to information and instructors on the East and West coasts. For some reason everything that goes on in Ohio and much of the rest of the Central states seems juuust far enough away to escape notice. It would be nice to see further documentation of the people and events from other-than W/E coasts so that part of our history is not lost.

That being covered, there are still these questions that were asked earlier:

With whom/what style of karate did Gene Chicoine study while in the service in Japan? Men who studied in Japan at the time were rare. This would make Chicoine one of the pioneers of Japanese karate, along with Walter Todd and (possibly) Robert Trias.

In what art was he ranked 7th dan out of Hong Kong...and by whom?

Who did Chicoine fight in challenge matches in Taiwan, in the USA, and as ISCA president? Tournaments, "friendly matches", students, subordinates, or people from rival organizations? Did he earn any titles, as Chang and Weng had? Chang's matches were public and documented--no hiding, no secrets. Just hard training and fierce fighting.

As for me and why I want to know...I've gone out of my way before to photograph important sites and interview people who have been involved in martial arts history. I don't disguise the fact that in addition to practicing and studying martial art, I am a history buff. If we don't broach these questions NOW, it may be too late LATER.



Take Care Y'all,

M.C. Busman

[Ho Chun]

I personally use the Judo breakfall when practicing, but I see the value and the reasoning behind the Shuai Chiao breakfall.

As I have said in earlier posts, M.C. Busman, is very educated and has much knowledge about the I.S.C.A. I wish I had some of the answers that continue to be left unanswered.

[Dale Dugas]

I bow down to you MC Busman.

Have heard many stories about Master Ong. I heard he was able to do some rather insane demos. Glad to hear you have been able to connect with direct lineage people.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[Ho Chun]

Three SC associations in US just don't make sense. It will be nice that one day, all three US SC schools, "Ho Chun", "Ho Jong", and "Ho Sheng" could work together again.

Who has the Ho Jong and Ho Sheng schools?

Thanks

[Ho Chun]

I believe that Ho Jong is Dr Daniel Weng's school and Ho Sheng is John Wang's school but I could be wrong.

That's cool! Do you know what they mean? I know Matt Molica down in Columbus, Ohio, his school is called Ho I. Seems as though GM Chang named them all in a very similar pattern.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Here's what I get out of this thread:

Gene Chicoine may or may not be a gangster as the rumours go, but he probably owns a porno shoppe.

None of his people can explain the crazy things he says on his site (see previous posts), and just get p!ssy when they are brought up and say 'teacher' or 'master' as a proper noun when speaking about him. (reminds me of Chung Moo Quan, but I KNOW you guys are better than that.)

Instead of enjoying his opportunity in life to teach and practice, he's a p!ssy guy who is determined to tell you 'the way it is' - even if it's delusional, and takes away from anything of value he may have to offer.

Which is a shame. But as is typical of the case, most MA teachers draw way too much of thier personal sense of self from the ego-boo of being 'special', 'unique', or 'different.'

[Dale Dugas]

MST,

Nothing wrong with respecting a man who teaches you something you do not know. He is very blunt and does not pull punches. He is allowed that. He has the experience to judge what he sees is crap and what is not.

I call him Teacher. I also call him Master Chicoine as he has many more years in the arts than I do. Anyone who has more than 30 years in the arts I will address as master. Call it respect of his training. Too many 25 year old Grandmasters that have taken the title and made it worthless.

Gangster? You gotta be kidding me. Please........

Master Chicoine can say what he wants. As can anyone else. The question is can the others back it up?

CMQ? Now theres a happy trippy cult who have nothing to offer but to take your money and teach you absolute garbage. They still have some schools here in the Boston area.. They have changed their name to Om Yang Doe or School of Asian Martial Arts. No covering up their stench of greed.

You want to talk about a kungfu cult then lets talk about the Green Dragon compound, I mean company. That would be closer to the truth. At least for rumors anyway.

I think Master Chicoine refuses to be PC about certain people and organizations. Bully for him to take a stance and not be swayed by status quo.

[lotus storm]

You want to talk about a kungfu cult then lets talk about the Green Dragon compound, I mean company. That would be closer to the truth. At least for rumors anyway

A "cult"? Really? What are the reasons you would give for promoting such a "rumor" in this way?

[Dale Dugas]

Lotus Storm,

Just restating what I have heard on the grapevine. I have PMed you as well.

Later,

Dale

[MonkeySlap Too]

Let me clarify - I find the silly claims on the web site similar ("grandmaster of all Pa Kua... puh-lease) similar to the kind of crap OOM YUNG DOE slings.

But I would never, ever directly compare anyone even remotely legitimate to those f@ckers. So, my apologies if that was perceived, it was not intended.

[Dale Dugas]

None taken. Marketing is marketing no matter the genre.

Those people are very weasely and deserve whatever is brought down upon their heads.

[DeLamar.J]

Any one ever heard of these guys? I was wondering if there was any footage out there besides the old black and white footage of gm chang. Any thing of gene chicoine fighting? Or any of their current students? I know that they think they are the greatest fighting school and art ever to grace this earth. I was just wondering if there was any one who has seen for themselves their destructive powers?

http://www.shuaichiao.com/


I know where I stand on their alledged dominance but I was wondering what other thought.

They are great martial artists, the best. I know people who train there and have trained there.

[YouKnowWho]

Who has the Ho Jong and Ho Sheng schools?

Thanks

That's cool! Do you know what they mean? I know Matt Molica down in Columbus, Ohio, his school is called Ho I. Seems as though GM Chang named them all in a very similar pattern.

GM Chang gave all his students a horizontal school sign with his own hand writting and they all start with "Ho ???". Where "Ho" means unify, combine, together.

Ho Chun - everybody live peacefully together (gene chicoine).
Ho I - everybody unify as one (Dr. Deniel Weng).
Ho Sheng - everybody raise (grow, advance) up together (John Wang).


I believe "Ho Jong" is from my bad memory and "Ho I" should be the right name. Matt Molica continues Dr. Weng's school after Dr. Weng moved to California.