full contact

[lkfmdc]

Experience shows, guys like you will believe what you want, no matter what evidence is dumped in their lap

Look at boxing from the early part of the century, then compare it to today's boxing.

Heck, compare Ali, called "the Greatest" to modern boxing, that's a 30 year difference.

Same with Judo, wrestling, and in fact ANY physical performance that has been measured over the years...

People who say they go "no pads" always insist they go "full contact"...... If you are really going full contact, you're sparring once a month and then healing for 3 weeks. Who is going to be better, the guy who spars once a month or the guy who spars three times per week?

Otherwise, your version of "full contact" isn't very contact at all!!!

Dude, you don't even do head contact. Experience shows that all we have to do is add back in the REALITY of head contact and you guys are gonna fall apart. We have thousands of Kyokushinkai guys as case studies on that one.

Believe what you want, for example 1000 years ago they thought the world was flat and the earth was the center of the universe. Martial arts people still have frighteningly similar views on themselves....

[redofthenorth]

You are corect I am on a computer aparently you are in the future and ****her advanced in understanding nut get your fact straight. Buble bursting season opend .

1. forty five caliber hand gun still in use when was it created? 1911 used in world war1 and 2 smart A## ogh and what else veit nam, desert storm, iraqui freedom still in use.

2. German mustard gas ww1 and 2.

3. pop top german granade ww1 and 2.

4. m1 grand ww1 and2 desert storm and a small place called rusia.

5. ak47 (sks huskavarnim) nam and Operation Iraqui freedom.

Dont asume you know the future it dosent exist the past is behind all there is is now and that is it. before you try to put someone down for living in the past maybe you should relize that your ignorance in it will only doom your future. and dint you say this was a waist of your time? what are you still doing hear or did you not learn from the past again?

Anyway none of use are write or wrong as I already stated above.

[redofthenorth]

The true thang is my student rotate sparing at least once a week is it we dont hit so called "Full contact" or that we know how to heal and in my clases. In the past my students have had to defend themselves in true life all of use did fine. the ring and practice is one thang definding yourself against a knife on the street and in a actual street fight is compleatly diferent and that is the only time that it maters what you have done in your tranning. I dont do martial arts for trophys or for fame hell I even hand pick my students and refuse at least twice as many . It isnt about trophys or mony it is about defense and mastery over the illusion and shell of the self.

[SiuHung]

But we are talking about kung fu, which at its very core has a spiritual and very mental aspect to it.

Sorry to interject, but this is total poo poo. Kung fu, and I assume you are talking about Chinese martial arts, are martial at thier core. Spirituality and other qualities have thier merits, but are not unique to martial arts. If you want to have martial skill, train intelligently...which means use the best available technology. This isn't to say that CMA are outdated, but rather many people's training methodologies aren't up to date, and they often lack a basic understanding of the strategies and techniques used by those they will face in competition.

[redofthenorth]

thank you I have wated so long for someone to bring this up . My school is not a compatition school nore will we ever be . We are not a sport school.

[crazylegs]

I think we are referring to similar things, SiuHung. By spiritual I don't mean religious or even the intangible word "honor". Rather, I mean finding the energy within to overcome some of the physical hardships that are associated with martial training. I have, on many occasions, stopped to think about some of our limb breaks, and reflect on how vicious they are and what they would actually do to someone in use. To me, the ability to use that kind of power responsibly and even inteligently requires a bit of inner vision and foresight, which to me, is spiritual and mental. Connecting not only to your training but to the world around you.

Meaning, you can walk the walk, but can you actually USE what you've learned. That's where the mind games begin, and the true strength of the heart is found.

[SiuHung]

thank you I have wated so long for someone to bring this up . My school is not a compatition school nore will we ever be . We are not a sport school.

So you train for what?
Not for sport so it's either for personal developement, though you'll never test it to see how it stacks up...Or it's for "the street" which means you need to test it in the closest and safest thing available a.k.a. competition. Otherwise, how will you or your hand picked students know it works?

[SaekSan]

Redofthenorth,

You said that you teach Northern Shaolin, may I ask what line?

I'm pretty sure SiuHung does not mean competition only in a sporting sense. I know him personally and would say that he definately does not fall in the "sport school" category.

Competition (sporting or otherwise) is pretty essential for development nowadays since challanges are pretty much outlawed (and outdated), which brings me back to the original question of what line of NS you teach? There's plenty of NS masters and scools that entered competition (some still do) and did extremely well and these schools I would not categorize as "sport schools".

Competition, whithin the right venue, can be very good for the students and teacher as they can exchange knowledge, viewpoints and experience with others that are like-minded (not with the closed-minded ones of course ) the teacher can also network and broaden their horizons with other teachers to understand other styles and ultimately understanding their own.

[lkfmdc]

Dear lord, LMFAO at the stupidity of these posts....

OK dude, let's have a gun fight, you can have your 1911 45 caliber revolver and I'll use the 50 caliber sniper rifle. Problem for you, I can hit you at 10 times the distance you can hit me. But your weapon is the "traditional one"

The last retreat of the desperate, you're not a "sport school", ie you never have to confront the inefficiencies of your method when confronted in competition by those training in more modern methods....

People who aren't living in Shaolin temples in the sky know who I am and what my students are known for.... who are you?

[crazylegs]

But you are comparing apples and oranges. Of course you can hit him from 10 times the distance... you are using a frickin' sniper rifle! Give him a sniper rifle circa WW1 and it would be much more relevant challenge. And there are snipers in this world that prefer the older models to the new fangled ones. Why? Because it's what they were trained on in the backfields of whatever country they are from. Again, it's preference.

This argument is getting on the ugly side, so I will bow out with a few final comments.

My sifu's original intention with this post was to see how many others out there spar without pads and full contact, and to see if anyone could suggest to him why he would want to change. Although it seemed he was defensive, really he was just arguing to get more information and to get more eloquent responses.

Which he did, and we both discussed the merits of the various responses at class last night. Some of them we thought were well-stated, and honestly convinced our class that future students will have the option to wear headgear and mouthguards should they wish to.

However, trying to state that our style of training is outdated is complete opinion. Stick to the martial art realms, and try and get away from this philosophical trend you've been building. This is not about healthcare and weaponry from thousands of years ago. It is about the martial arts, and how they have been trained in the past, and the traditions that are still alive today. Some are good, and some are not as good. But to say that something is worthless because it is traditional just doesn't make any sense. NOR does it make any sense to say that something has worth BECAUSE it is traditional. I know that. I am basing my worth of our sparring system for what it has done for me, and how I have seen the other students in my classes respond to the training.

[SiuHung]

Crazylegs, I sense conflict within you in regard to your training...Come over to the dark side of the force.

[FatherDog]

The true thang is my student rotate sparing at least once a week is it we dont hit so called "Full contact" or that we know how to heal and in my clases.

If you're sparring "full contact" with no pads once a week with no serious injuries that prevent you from sparring again, then either our definitions of "full contact" differ drastically, or you hit like complete girls.

In the past my students have had to defend themselves in true life all of use did fine.

There are plenty of people with no training whatsoever who've had to defend themselves in "true life" and done fine, so that's not really much of an argument.

[redofthenorth]

well there is alott to answer here first of I would like to thank my Si suke for voicing his opinions on this post ... thank you crazylegs. Second fATHERDOG this was never an argument I apologize if you thought we were having one. And I belive it was you sevenstar that asked my line and style. These are the styles I have ben trained in I spelt the Chinese names faneticaly for eiser pronounciation not that induividuals such as yourself would need it.


KUNG FU:
Silum kung fu from wong jackman
Dale freeman and Roy sorvari.

CHI KUNG:
Ping Si yu
Madam Min ou Yang
Dale Freeman
Roy sorvari

Tai Chi:
Ping Si YU
Madam Min ou Yang
Dale Freeman
Roy Sorvari

Yi Quan :
Wang chian chi
Ping Si yu
MIn Ou Yang
Dale freeman
Roy sorvari

Meditation and buddha:
Thich Knhat Han
Buddha
Sifu
Tai Sifu
Dali Lama
Mom

Anyway I belive that this post is being mis read by some of the readers All I wanted was advice and I now have it. Here is my line thanks guys and feel free to e- mail me I will check the post later though.

[Knifefighter]

A Kenpo master sparred me at my Sifu"s
school when he dilevered a punch it would consistantly be out of reach by one to 2 inches...why? He openy addmited that it was
from wearing and traning with pads.

Most Kenpo systems have their practitioners pull their punches when and if they spar. Being out of reach when hitting is the direct result of this, not the use of protective equipment.

Using equipment allows you to hit with full force through your target. This develops an incredible amount of speed and power. Boxers, who use gloves and, sometimes, headgear, hit harder and faster than just about any other strikers. This is a direct result of using protective equipment.

[rogue]

OK dude, let's have a gun fight, you can have your 1911 45 caliber revolver and I'll use the 50 caliber sniper rifle. Problem for you, I can hit you at 10 times the distance you can hit me. But your weapon is the "traditional one"

This paragraph is the result of NYC gun laws. Please help stamp out bad gun laws.