Who wants to play "spot the kung fu principle in everyday life"?

[PangQuan]

It involves one of the most attention getting things in the photo in my opinion.

His sh!t eating grin?

[_William_]

http://www.happeh.com/Images/Weightlifter.jpg

It is the same troll that was banned a few weeks ago. Way to be subtle, Happeh.

[anerlich]

Have you figured out where I am going already?

Sure have!

Nowhere, slowly.

[Merryprankster]

Ray, you're starting to catch on!

The pitcher example is a great example. Small variations can produce different results! But that is all they are SMALL VARIATIONS ON A THEME!

I used to play baseball and pitch a bit, and the ball behaves differently depending on how you hold it and snap your wrist.

But the rest of the movements - the gross motor stuff is the same. Your body moves the same way and looks the same because that's the best way to deliver the ball to the target.

The movements involved in throwing a curve ball are what, 95% the same as those throwing a fast ball. Why? Because the act of pitching employs the same PRINCIPLES, regardless of the pitch thrown. The grip and wrist change the outcome, but these are small variations. If you can't get the principles of pitching down, those small variations won't matter anyway.

And that has been my point all along. You have been claiming some sort of major difference in principle - it just isn't there. You have variations, sure, but none of them violate the principles of good punching. The principles transcend the relatively minor differences present in stylistic comparisons.

For the record, I somewhat resent that world is flat comment. I don't say that your style is the same as boxing. I say that the principles of punching you employ are the same. HOW you employ them, including timing, preferences, and the subtle variations in technique make what people do "special and unique." But that does not chalk up to new or different principles - why? Because like the curveball/fastball example, the minor technique differences can produce different outcomes, but the fundamental principles cannot be violated if you want good results.

My "special and unique" comments are reserved for the "Well, we have THIS principle, which is ours and its unique and nobody else does it." Wrong answer. You have technical specialties and particular solutions to the problem of combat, which all rely on the same principles everybody else is using. For instance, if you want to do a joint break, you have to isolate the limb from the rest of the body, remove space to prevent it rejoining the body, and hyperextend or hyperrotate the joint. It doesn't matter whether it is a BJJ jointlock, Aikido, or Chin Na, or even a striking lock/break. Those are the PRINCIPLES involved. The execution has millions of variations on that theme, but all employ those three principles.

I have believed all along that you and I were talking past each other, and I didn't know how to make the connection. Perhaps this is it?

Just so you know, ANYBODY could add a new dimension to my punching. So saying that is like saying I could teach you a thing or two about groundwork

[MasterKiller]

What about "submariner" pitching? I know next to nothing about baseball physics, but would you say a submariner is still throwing with the same principles as a normal pitcher?

[Merryprankster]

MK,

Generally, yes. The hips and body still must lead the arm slightly and come around square to the target. Their torso and legs are moving in the same way, minus the various idiosyncracies and tweaks present because of personal preference and body structure (obviously, the big unit doesn't have EXACTLY the same movement as roger clemens, etc.)

That generates tremendous angular momentum, the lead leg then "blocks," arresting the angular momentum, and translating it to linear momentum. Then the arm essentially cracks like a whip, as it catches up to the rest of the body, regardless of whether it is an overhand or sidearm/submarine throw.

You see the SAME EXACT sequence of movments in Hammer, Shotput, Dicsus and Javelin at the release.

It's all much more similar than different.

Now if we start comparing apples and oranges, say, pole vault and pitching, obviously, this all breaks down. But when comparing apples to apples, you start talking about varieties, not different species.

And that's my point.

[lada]

Sure have!

Nowhere, slowly.

Darn. I was hoping someone would get the hints. Oh well.

Ok. We got this guy in this picture who we agree is Yang because of his massive muscles. He is a man and the hard muscles make him more Yang.

According to Yin/Yang theory, everyone has Yin/Yang inside of them. A man is Yang and a women is Yin. Let's arbitrarily make a scale of from 1 to 10. This scale is a measure of the Yin/Yang in a person.

A man we will designate as 6 Yang and 4 Yin for a total of 10. The man has 6 Yang which is more than 4 Yin so the man is Yang. The woman is the opposite. The woman is 6 Yin and 4 Yang. The woman has 6 Yin which is more than 4 Yang so she is Yin. 6 + 4 = 10, the total of our arbitrary scale.

The man in the picture is extra Yang as we have discussed. This means the designation of the man has to increase. Again we will be just arbitrary. This man has lots of big muscles so let's say that the man is now 8 Yang.

If the man's Yang increased to 8, where did the 2 come from? He was only at 6. Our scale only goes to 10. If the man's Yang increases from 6 to 8, there is only one place that 2 can come from. It has to come from the Yin. This means that our man is now 8 Yang, 2 Yin = 10 total from the scale.

We all know that people are supposed to be balanced. a 6 to 4 ratio is out of balance but it is necessary to distinguish the man from the woman. But an 8 to 2 ration of Yang to Yin? Doesn't that just look bad? There is a 6 difference, 8-2 = 6. This man is probably going to be unhealthy don't you think? Just using your common sense, does'nt the amount of imbalance seem like it would cause a problem?

What if you put 10 pounds of pressure in the tires on the left side of your car and 40 pounds of pressure in the right side tires of your car? It rides funny right? The suspension gets beat up because of the angle of the car. You might have an accident and get hurt because the car is not balanced from right to left on the tires.

That was all just talking to get you thinking. The real question is.......What happens to the man as a result of being 8 Yang to 2 Yin? What exactly happens to his body when he take 2 Yin and gives it to the Yang so the Yang goes to 8?

We can see what happens to the Yang. The Yang goes to 8 and muscles pop out all over his body. What is it that we see that indicates what happened to the Yin?

It is right there in front of your face if you look. The obvious part anyways. The deeper, "secret of kung fu" part is a little more difficult to see.

To be clear so there is no mistake. The muscles indicate the effect of extra Yang. What do you see in this man's body that shows the effect of less Yin?


There is an answer Anerlich. I am not kidding you. It is right there in front of your eyes.

[Mutant]

Great thread, LOL!

[ZIM]

What exactly happens to his body when he take 2 Yin and gives it to the Yang so the Yang goes to 8?

When he stops working out, he'll grow man-b00bs.

[lada]

Since when are kung fu guys shy? There should be about 50 people shouting out answers in here if it is like some places I been. No one cares if they right or wrong, they just wanna shout something out.

Where is the man's right hand? His hand is there, it is not chopped off with an axe or anything. Look at it though. Doesn't it look small, hidden, atrophied, withdrawn? The hand is closed up into a fist with the thumb on top. The left hand is holding on to the right as if to stop it from getting away.

Does that give you a hint? Do you see the other signs now?

It might help you to download the photo and resize it smaller. Around 128 X 128 or a little bigger. Sometimes when you look at a big picture, the most obvious thing grabs your attention and won't get out of the way so you can see the less obvious things.

[anerlich]

Since when are kung fu guys shy?

Don't confuse a reluctance to play games with someone who demonstrated his h0m0phobia and willingness to use racial stereotypes as well as outright kookery on the WC forum, with shyness.

There should be about 50 people shouting out answers in here if it is like some places I been.

Which places? Gay bars? Lunatic asylums?

[Ray Pina]

Merry,

I'm glad we are understanding each other more now.

I just think there is a big difference between a fast ball and a curve ball. For years I didn't have a curve ball and it was frustrating. I tried and tried. Then a friend told me to throw the ball almost like a football .... that kind of spin.

Even that wasn't right, but it was pointing me in the right direction. But I had a good wind up and I could put the ball in there pretty good but it wouldn't curve. Not until someone shared some additional technology with me.

It is a small thing, a litte variation. But that small things is the difference between a normal straight ball and one that breaks away and down from the batter.

I have certianly learned a variation on normal punching, involving twisting, that adds more velocity and bite into a punch. It also automatically reloads you for another full power punch without withdrawing the hand.

It's actually quite easy to do. The training is to just increase onse ability. Lenghten the muscle groups. Train how fast you can release power, relax it, do it again, ect. But the technology in itself is simple. But I never seen it before until training Ba Gua.

[lada]

Hokay. Since we got no one making associations, I can't tell what people do and do not know. If I am being patronizing, I can't help it. Bear with me if this is all child's play to you.

So far we got the man who is extremely Yang. He had to give up Yin in order to become Yang. We can see what he got for the extra Yang. He got muscles. We are looking for what he lost as a result of giving up his Yin. I said look at the hand. No one is talking so let me give you another picture to look at that should be obvious.

If I spell this out for you, you don't learn how to think. You don't learn to look for clues to kung fu everywhere. You don't learn how to take disparate ideas and synthesize your own ideas. Where the answer came from or how it was arrived at is a mystery to you.

Here is the picture. It is titled "Udo warns Uloko".

http://www.happeh.com/Images/UdoWarnsUloko.jpg

If you look at this picture, what idea related to kung fu do you see? We are still talking about Yin/Yang theory and balance so it is a good guess that what I have in mind is related to one of those ideas. I will also say it is a very basic thing to know.

You don't really want me to hold your hand and give you the answer do you?

EDIT: Ok. What if I say that the Wing Chun guys HAVE to know the answer? Does that help?

[anerlich]

If I am being patronizing, I can't help it.

Looks like you can't help being a weirdo, either.

We are still talking

You are still talking ... to yourself. There another, more interesting, conversation about baseball going on on the thread as well.

You don't really want me to hold your hand and give you the answer do you?

You have no answers, and if you try and touch my hand, I'll kick your groin up between your shoulder blades.

What if I say that the Wing Chun guys HAVE to know the answer?

What if I say that you HAVE to seek therapy, quick?

[SaMantis]

OK. I think I figured out what lad-di-da's getting at here.

If I have 6 Yang and a woman next to me has 4 Yin, and then a bodybuilder crashes through the wall and takes one of my Yang, at what ratio would his proportional Yang be to my remaining Yang vs. the woman's 4 Yin? And would the woman with 4 Yin have the sense to step out of the way if a train coming from Boston at 60 mph suddenly met the train coming from Chicago at 75 mph if all three of us happened to be standing in the exact, mathematically computed place that the trains will meet? Or will she try to throw her Yin at them? And if she does, how many Yin will she have left?

You all have 60 seconds to solve this problem. Show your work!