Mindset of a mantis fighter

[mantisben]

it would be cartilidge.

but, it's not nearly long enough. it would have to pass through the upper sinus cavity first before it even got to the brain and then it would only barely do damage to the frontal lobe...if it got through the sinus cavity at all.

I don't think the cartilidge would retain enough stiffness if dislocated from the bit of bone where it's anchored anyway and would just mush out inside the sinus cavity IF it even got that far.

mostly you would just cause some decent pain, get the eyes closed and allow yourself some follow up time.

basically that whole thing is an urban myth.

I'm not too sure about that. Not because I know first-hand for sure, but because I've read and heard this said soo often. Maybe it is an urban-myth. Still, I'll never hit anyone upward in the nose with a palm-heel strike, just in case you're wrong...

I found this doing an Internet search. I don't know if there is any truth to it though. Here goes, as posted by "kaya man":

"As far as the nose into the brain, that is a myth. As my martial arts instructor explained, it's cartilage, it bends or breaks. How often do noses get broken against steering wheels in car accidents, ever heard of anyone dying from it? There is, however, a technique used by British Commandos in which through TWO strikes the nose cartilage is driven into the brain. First a knife hand strike is used in a downward motion on the bridge of the nose, then a palm heal follows upward driving the severed, sunken cartilage into the brain."

I can't believe everything I read on the Internet though...

[Oso]

this has been done to death hasn't it?

anyway, there are some areas of the body that are more sinsitive to 'pinching' than others.

inside of the leg near the groin

inside of the arm near the armpit

the sides of the torso from under the armpit to the waist

the side of the neck

these are the areas to attack with a 'pinch'. outside of the arm or leg, front of the chest or back are not going to get you any sort of reaction at all. also, adrenaline and endorphines will blunt the pain as well.

now, to define 'pinch': it's not taking the skin between the index finger and thumb. what I'm talking about is laying the palm of your hand on the skin in the above areas and then making a fist and twisting. that way you are grabbing as much of the skin as you can get in your fist and first compressing it then rending it. Don't think about 'pinching' just press the palm to the skin then make a fist as hard as you can and twist.

[Oso]

i just don't see it happening.

the cartilage is just not long enough to get to the brain or, more importantly, any part of the brain where trauma would cause instant death.




although, this article suggests that damaging the frontal lobe would definitely aid you in a fight since it helps control the arms and hands as well as spatial relationships.

http://www.neuroskills.com/index.sht...bfrontal.shtml

[SevenStar]

now, to define 'pinch': it's not taking the skin between the index finger and thumb. what I'm talking about is laying the palm of your hand on the skin in the above areas and then making a fist and twisting. that way you are grabbing as much of the skin as you can get in your fist and first compressing it then rending it. Don't think about 'pinching' just press the palm to the skin then make a fist as hard as you can and twist.

Yeah, that's the same method I'm referring to. We covered it a while back in bjj as a "dirty" way that you can get someone to make space so you can escape the mount. We only covered it a few times, and it's been like 1.5 years since the last time. We focus more on technical escapes.

[SevenStar]

i just don't see it happening.

the cartilage is just not long enough to get to the brain or, more importantly, any part of the brain where trauma would cause instant death.




although, this article suggests that damaging the frontal lobe would definitely aid you in a fight since it helps control the arms and hands as well as spatial relationships.

http://www.neuroskills.com/index.sht...bfrontal.shtml

my uinderstanding is the same as yours. you would have to hit a guy with a hammer in order to drive it up far enough to hit the brain.

[-N-]

I think McD's is serving Dim Mak now in an attempt to attract the Asian audience.

Hahaha.... Yeah, I like those little shrimp dumplings. The curry pastries are good too

The pork dumplings aren't as good. Too much cartilage....

N.

[Oso]

my uinderstanding is the same as yours. you would have to hit a guy with a hammer in order to drive it up far enough to hit the brain.

yea, but if you use a hammer then a cartilage in the brain will be the least of his worries.




on the pinching: I agree, being able to escape via technical superiority is great, and a goal. But, if opponent is better (talking 'street', not sport) then I feel that teaching a good way to 'pinch' succesfully fills the gap till more technical skills are learned.

i taught a defense vs. a standing front bear hug w/ your arms pinned the other day:

both hands grab skin at the waist, twist and push away
next, assuming a reaction gives you space.
start lifting the knee upward then stomping downward with the instep of your foot
contacting targets of opportunity on both the upward and downward strokes
don't stop till the arms are off you
run away if possible

variations and 'what if' were discussed to some degree
headbutting was brought up as well.

[mantisben]

my uinderstanding is the same as yours. you would have to hit a guy with a hammer in order to drive it up far enough to hit the brain.

Oso,

Thanks for the graphics. They look very helpful.

SevenStar,

Are you implying it could be done with enough force? Could somebody like Mike Tyson, bare-knuckle, hitting someone with all of his might, and the cartilage still in their nose (not surgically removed like Professional boxers do), with his most powerful right-hook landing square above the upper-lip right under the nose, driving his fist upwards? Do you think it is possible to send cartilage fragments into the brain?

This'll be my last question off-topic.

[SevenStar]

I won't say it's impossible, but it would take a massive impact. BUT, such a massive impact I'd imagine would make the cartilage bend, in which case, it wouldn't work...

[Samurai Jack]

(not surgically removed like Professional boxers do)

Who told you boxers have their septal cartilage surgically removed? Tee-hee, that's funny. I'll have to pass that one on to my non-martial artist friends along with the my-hands-are-registered-deadly-weapons myth.

I can see it now; "That's not really cartilage Biff, I'm a boxer. That hard stuff holding my nose together is just my 'nose-bone' and a little graphite."

You made my day.

[Vasquez]

I don't agree with shirk on this one, but I see what he is saying. You are looking at it from the standpoint of "pinching and biting aren't legitimate fighting techniques", while he looks at it in a different light. You, I would say are wrong. He's right, but of a different opinion than my own.

let's say we are in a clinch. I am smothering all of your space, which is preventing you from striking me. If you can pinch or bite me hard enough, you may be able to evoke a reaction from me - get me to move just enough that you get room to utilize a technique. That is a very valid thought.

I think that the results of that will vary greatly, however. I can honestly say that pretty much any season grappler will shake of a pinch, scratch, etc. - it will just tick him off. I think positioning and utilizing shorter strikes - like shoulder strikes - would server you better the majority of the time.

tcma has many clawing techniques

[Pilot]

Going back to the original question, it just comes down to basics. Practice until you act without thinking, and then practice more. It is like the person giving a speech for the first time in front of a crowd. He is sweating, nervous, his mind is blanking, and he some how stumbles through it all, but with bad reviews. The guy that has done thousands of these speeches can rattle on without missing a beat for hours, and he already knows what jokes work.

[SevenStar]

tcma has many clawing techniques

yes, it does - what's your point?

[mantisben]

(not surgically removed like Professional boxers do)

Who told you boxers have their septal cartilage surgically removed? Tee-hee, that's funny. I'll have to pass that one on to my non-martial artist friends along with the my-hands-are-registered-deadly-weapons myth.

I can see it now; "That's not really cartilage Biff, I'm a boxer. That hard stuff holding my nose together is just my 'nose-bone' and a little graphite."

You made my day.

I've heard from several sources that Professional Boxers get the cartilage from their noses removed, since most Professional Boxers will, eventually, get hit in the nose.

I've also heard that Professional fighters have to have their hands "Registered". I don't know if it is specifically their "hands", or if they just have to notify some "authority" that they're allowed to hit, only in extreme self-defense situations.

Maybe another myth?

[Vasquez]

yes, it does - what's your point?

close range you can use eagle claw or tiger claw or dm but you don't believe in that