Another thing I have noticed when a Wing Chun guy loses in competitions UFC ect.. Their own people disown them saying he is no rep of Wing Chun but If they won oh! he is our man go figure>
Another thing I have noticed when a Wing Chun guy loses in competitions UFC ect.. Their own people disown them saying he is no rep of Wing Chun but If they won oh! he is our man go figure>
Ten years ago called and asked for its post back.Another thing I have noticed when a Wing Chun guy loses in competitions UFC ect.. Their own people disown them saying he is no rep of Wing Chun but If they won oh! he is our man
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it's funny how they and many other tma styles steal techniques form bjj and call it wing chun or whateevr, and when they fight mma and win they give credit to their tma even though they won with mma.
that's because the style like every other tma is inferior technique, strategy, etc. wise to mma type of styles. No matter how a wing chun fighter trains a mt fighter trianing the same ammount of time will win and will fight how he trains. By the way I have seen some good wing chun in movies.Originally Posted by XINDU
actually what you people don't realize is slipping punches, parrying, etc. (what boxers/kickboxers do) is at least as hard it is to do the wing chun blocks:
http://www.wingchun.org/viewpt/one/2/vp1-2n.html
the only difference is the latter are conditioned to take those punches better and practise more realistically and harder generally.
Last edited by ReignOfTerror; 07-15-2005 at 04:04 AM.
Originally Posted by XINDU
I think if you try doing pak sao to a fighter like you would in class, your always going to be disappointed.
In most class exercise you would (normally) try to pak with one hand and punch with the other at the same time. ANd it works in excercise because your partner is either stationary or charging in without stepping back, which is unlike most real world fighting situations.
Pak saoing like that is not going to work if you still need to bridge the gap, and against a fast jab with a subsequent retreat, nor against a one two punch combo. In such case if you use a lead pak sao to parry the first punch, you will almost aways have to follow through, with the same pak saoing hand, with both a half step in right away, and with either a straight punch, or a bil sao, or tan sao to cover, soon after. And depending on your foot position (Parallel or opposite) you will either use your rear hand to check and cover or punch while your lead hand is covering. But all in all, the key is in the footwork! All to often I see wing chunners and most fighters alike moving back, thus losing or depriving the full effectiveness of their techniques. Forgetting that hand position and where you stand is part of that techniques success!
so what kind of defense do you suggest against a jab?
I know I'm going to get alot of flak for this, but in my personal opinion, and you can take it or leave it, I don't care, but I feel that there is so much midiocrity and public acceptance to the point where almost 90-95 percent I dare say believe that what they see on MMA or BJJ or K-1 is what real fighting proficiency is all about, all because most people personally can't see themselves fighting too beyond the level they see thier so called champion martial art heroe's themselves fight, and I believe this is not the best, especially true of most wing chunners who think this is the best even a wing chunner can do when they compete in these things. I think everyone settles quickly to believing that this is the best anyone can do in any given fight(MMA and BJJ included). If you get at least one teachnique in (usually by luck) and win the fight, hoooO your an expert and a martial artist, but yet no one ever comments really on how lucky he really just was because the other guy quite often was either careless or just plain worst than he was or he just couldn't keep up. Endurance for the lack of tecknique plays a key role in almost all fights where lack of true abilty barely exist.
If anything it's just staight up street brawl with a slight step up in my opinion because they do use some general and easily adoptable techniques such as simple timing, broken rhythm, fakes, speed, tempo changes, cadence, endurance training, strength and anything else most prize fighters and a good street fighter with any sense can use to help them. And oh yes! there are some other added bonus techniques like take downs and grappling, if you know any, but as far as seeing someone looking like a martial artist, you can forget about it. I don't see much evidence of that! The majority of fighters I see still lack total commitment to their techniques, most draw back when they could or should be stepping in, but they don't because I believe they really don't know what to do in a tight cicumstance like during the huddle where one's hands often get lost due to lack of sensitivity and not enought preperation. Also, there is hardly enough follow through, or hand technique, and/or quick change ups or redirection and quick recovery. In short, no skill! The "art" in "martial art" has gone out the window.
If your a good wing chunner, and the operative word here is being "good"! you'll know what to do from every possible possition and angle your in. So you would take advantage at every step of the way of your contact. If your apponent counters, you should always have a subsequent counter or quick follow up or change for that and anything else, without ever having to step back. You should know and be able to feel and foresee your opponents actions right away and before he's even aware of it.
When you know what your doing, the fight shouldn't be unpredictable as most people would have you believe you can't control that when in fact you can be in control all the way, limiting your opponents variables as much as possible, and predicticting his every possible move based on what you do!
There's still room for real achievement folks! Honestly I'm not quite there yet myself, but I know it can be done. Keep practicing, and don't settle for less that perfect!
so do you think it's possible to attain the fighting ability displayed in shaw brother movies such as warriors two and prodigal son where one is virtually unhittable and lightning fast with super reflexes?
there is generally alot higher level of technique and stnadup tactics in k1 and boxing than mma. but than there is cro cop.
Last edited by ReignOfTerror; 07-15-2005 at 07:04 PM.
Originally Posted by ReignOfTerror
I doubt you've seen good Wing Chun in movies.
There are a lot of things you can do...Originally Posted by ReignOfTerror
keeping on the offensive yourself;
body work (moving you head a lot, dodging and weaving... v v unpopular I think in WC, but fits nicely at biu jee stage); but among other things...
of course a pak can work!!! If you're standing there static and trying to stop the jab completely, you'll probably miss it and get nailed, or hit it and hurt your wrist... but the pak da is so similar to a standard boxing parry, slip, straight if you think for some reason that boxers have the answer and chunners don't you haven't met any good chunners!
In terms of rhythm and timing, eating/dodging the first jab or two and following their hand back to hit their openings works too. If you have some experience of getting punched in the head that is!
Oh, I see. You don't know what a pak sao is!Originally Posted by XINDU
A pak sao is not a trap. It is not a block.
A pak sao is a strike. It is practised as a parry: that is not the same as a block, a block's purpose is to stop the incoming strike (which I believe very often doesn't work) and sometimes to attack the striking arm.
My purpose with a pak sao is to strike. If I hit their arm, I want to inflict damage on their arm which will weaken their muscles and their ability to hit me with that arm again. Their is nothing mysterious about this. It's the same principle as a Thai boxer using a kick to the thigh. If he's lucky it'll take the guy down and finish the fight, otherwise, and usually, he'll just repeatedly attack the same spot and progressively weaken the leg and its ability to attack effectively.
However, if I don't hit their arm (maybe I've misjudged it and they've hit me or something) I want my pak to hit the centre of their mass, ie, any of the targets that'll disrupt their balance, knock them out or otherwise **** on their bonfires.
If I make contact with their retreating arm, I can't hit their centre, so rather than wasting time disengaging or going around their arm, I use the direction their arm is going in to trap it in a position that makes it awkward for them to hit me and preferably breaks their balance enough for me to sweep them etc, and hit them with my other hand. A trap is usually a happy bit of luck and circumstance, though of course, if they don't know what the hell I'm doing I can sometimes set it up (although that is often strategically not as useful as a more direct approach).
So in summary, my objectives with a pak are (in order of importance and opportunity):
1) strike their body/head;
2) strike their arm;
3) same as (1);
4) trap their arm.
I agree with Liddel and Mortal about the quality of the vids.
Except I'm not so charitable. Anybody who uses so many chain punches when they're obviously not working deserves the **** kicking out of them!
BTW Marty, I'm on Windows 2000 but for some reason I can't see your vids. Any suggestions?
Mat -Originally Posted by Mat
Rick click and download them to your drive, load in windows media player and if you don't have the right codec then it will ask to download it for you.
Otherwise, any program that can play dvd's (or dvd files) will work.
Xindu says
"I have watched some Wing Chun fighters over the years and have really never seen anyone able to pull off Pak sau ect.. "
But really this is irrelevant because in the vids you supplied, they never seem to even 'attempt' any of these actions mentioned, sucessful or not (not that i saw, can someone correct me i may be wrong ?) so even if i agree with you, your point is moot.
However you raise a good point in your post, subsequently ive dropped all Pak Sao from my VT. ????
[ joking ]
Last edited by Liddel; 07-17-2005 at 05:28 PM.
Originally Posted by martyg
hahaha, i love how you try to put some technical names to this completely untechnical brawl. that looks like 2 guys who have never fought before in their lives, seeing how he didn't use a single WC technique
if you didn't write what he did, i wouldn't know. looks like he just did a lot of messy swinging.
all that shows is instinct > trained in a traditional MA. i know those fights are TMA b/c they allow kicks w/ no shin pads, so i know that's not an amateur kickboxing nor am boxing.
Why didn't he fight someone that could actually fight, that wouldn't fall over at every roundhouse thrown, or just ran away every time they almost got hit......
Last edited by Sihing73; 07-17-2005 at 07:44 PM.