Important Announcement from CCK TCPM - Open Letter to Mr. Lam Wing Kit ...

[mantis108]

Well, "traditionally" October is a month of revolution.... So, I think it's pretty much sticking with tradition. lol

BTW, life does suck a lot especially being a Chinese and all. lol... But Robert Curtis does sounds pretty cool. Now, I have to go look for a dark suit and a cool shade.

Warm regards

Robert

[-N-]

My yoga master has the REAL yoga. I'd show you but I'm not allowed.

That's ok, I achieved enlightenment just the other day...

*flashback with wavy lines*

I was so frustrated at not being able to sit cross legged, that I went into the forest to sulk. I found a peaceful spot, and practiced sitting like a normal person for a while.

Suddenly a faint rustling sound caught my attention. I turned towards the source of the noise and saw a pile of empty beer cans and some junk food wrappers. I looked more closely and found that although it was very windy, one of the wrappers remained steadily in place.

Intrigued, I picked up a stick and poked at the trash. It was then that I uncovered the mystery of the unwavering cellophane. Inside that bag, that discarded wrapper, I found... one remaining uneaten pretzel.

Quickly, I snatched the pretzel from amidst the crumbs and salt crystals. I stared at it in awe. I knew that somehow it was my destiny to meet this pretzel. I knew that I was special, and that gave me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

All the other pretzels I'd seen before had been straight little sticks, and they came from cans. This pretzel was different, it was twisted and bent with flowing curves, and it came from INSIDE A BAG!

I studied the pretzel for many hours. I counted 7 hugeass salt crytals on it, shaped in the pattern of the Big Dipper. As I analyzed the intricate bends and twists of this pretzel, all the secrets of the universe became revealed to me. I finally realized how simple it could be to sit cross legged. I just had to become like the pretzel.

And then I ate it.

N.

btw, if you combine pretzels with 17 other junk food items, it becames a really awesome party snack for you and all your friends.

[Three Harmonies]

So I am a bit confused....................
Are these books actually WHF Mantis, with CCK Taiji Mantis nomenclature? Are these CCK forms that have been "borrowed" in one fashion or another? Any links to these books?

Thanks
Jake

[Michael Dasargo]

>>I am merely doing a service and duty to my fellow CCK TCPM community

Hey Robert,

I beleive you are doing the right thing. Personally, I was confused as I read Lam Wing Kits book, as I observed notable differences from the CCK TCPM that I have been exposed to. For someone as ignorant to the art as I, I felt lost in a world of misunderstanding. Your post helps to dissipate some of the fog.

I personally don't consider notes of this nature to be "political". Rather, I perceive it as factual as long as the material presented is in truth. I don't necessarily see it as discrediting another organization, but simply clarifying what is represented...and if I understand you correctly, the material presented in the book is not an accurate representation of CCK TCPM. It is what it is.

But since -N- declared October to be International Kung Fu Politics Month, I would like to attack Ou Ji.

On behalf of Jim Carey, we are now taking legal action towards the misrepresentations of Infinite Monkey Style. The true and accurate depictions may be found in the well known documentary entitled, "Dumb and Dumber". Please make note of the proper use of "Monkey Reaches the Heavens" in "Swaying Horse Stance".

M.

[mantis108]

Thanks for the support and the suggestion. I know I can count on you always.

I do have a project or two in mind but I think it needs a bit more time to develop. Anyway, I am in no rush. When the time comes, I definitely will appreciate all the help from you.

BTW, how is your book project coming along? I know that you will be pretty busy since this is getting close to the big move back to the States. Have you decided on where you will be teaching yet?

Warmest regards

Robert

[Michael Dasargo]

I don't mean to make lite of a serious situation but CMA in general is getting pretty da mn ridiculous these days. Too many:

secrets
flakes
frauds
egos
prestige
love of money

and not enough:

openness
sharing
helping
giving
honesty

What's funny is that I was just thinking the same thing about strangers who want to join my school. And this may all be due to culture shock. Most "shoppers" who aren't familiar with traditional Guoshu customs tend to treat a "Shifu" like a prostitute of Martial Arts. "I pay you this so you teach me that!" Well, it's not quite that simple. Most capitalist societies are educated to get the most out of their hard earned money. But regardless of the service, CULTURE CAN NOT BE COMMODIFIED.

"Easier to move a mountain than to change a man".

I believe many authentic Shifu had to adapt to survive in capitalist society, and thus began the screening of students based on their "manners" or lack thereof. Thus, the consequence of learning what you want, versus what you need.

I believe that the energy you put into a traditional teacher, the more will be returned to you. Many authentic teachers get "raped" for their knowledge and experience by students who use the teacher to get what they want, and ultimately abandons them.

If you treat your teacher like a prostitute, then you'll get over charged...and screwed-over (no pun intended).

Dos Centavos,
M.

[Ou Ji]

*** WARNING - IMMENENT THREAD DERAILMENT *** WARNING - IMMENENT THREAD

On behalf of Jim Carey, we are now taking legal action towards the misrepresentations of Infinite Monkey Style. The true and accurate depictions may be found in the well known documentary entitled, "Dumb and Dumber". Please make note of the proper use of "Monkey Reaches the Heavens" in "Swaying Horse Stance".

Gou Lou Cai to your legal action. Infinite Monkey Boxing is NOT simian based therefore cannot be equated to any other monkey based systems or techniques.

Judge Pen help me out. There's a parchment with cool chinese writing on it for you as a retainer in this legal action.

[Ou Ji]

Many authentic teachers get "raped" for their knowledge and experience by students who use the teacher to get what they want, and ultimately abandons them.

I've seen that more than once and what bothers me is that the result is the witholding of information to those that come along after the fact. I don't agree with the 'smash and grab' mentality of training but if someone agrees to teach and does so then there's no turning back if the student decides not to stay.

Look at the current 8 Step discussion where Master Shyun will never teach all ten set to any one person again. Why? Got me.

Guess I'm just simple. If the system has ten sets and I'm willing and able to learn all ten then why not teach me?

Once you teach something does it not belong to the student after learning it?

Why aren't college students considered 'raping' their teachers knowledge and experience for personal gain? I mean they do learn all they can then run off and get paid for the knowledge they now possess.

[MantisCool]

We understand that Lam Wing Kit does not learn from a proper sifu in both 7* mantis or other branches of mantis but that does not keep him from publishing books on that subjects.

I dont think he can make a lot of money out of writing the books. It is just a matter of passion and prestige. I think he didnt mentioned that he is a student of the mantis school either, he just say these books are all about the 7* or CCK TJPM etc. If you look at the 7* mantis books he published, it is all his own flavour and are not exactly from the WHF or CCM lineages. All he do is using the WHF's style of naming all the stroke name.

The problem is that some people cannot write books and wanted to keep away others from doing so. Even if they can write books they are still not the sole representative of that school because no one is exactly the same. If we are 100% same as our sifu than we can say our writing is representing his style but than other students who are not would still say we are wrong and they are right!

Regards
khoo

[Indestructible]

Hmmm... Babel Fish says:

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[-N-]

Hmmm... Babel Fish says:

Male □□Ming?ming □□: 竹溪 too □praying mantis with □□(below □□this □) [...]

Reminds me of some of the translations I've seen of Mantis terms

N.

[TaichiMantis]

Thanks for the support and the suggestion. I know I can count on you always.

I do have a project or two in mind but I think it needs a bit more time to develop. Anyway, I am in no rush. When the time comes, I definitely will appreciate all the help from you.

BTW, how is your book project coming along? I know that you will be pretty busy since this is getting close to the big move back to the States. Have you decided on where you will be teaching yet?

Warmest regards

Robert

My sifu warned me about this. He said there was stuff out there that wasn't really CCK TCPM. The only "real" book out there is the the one on wooden dummy training. I am assuming if Robert did a book on our style he would have to get "official" permission...right?

[BeiTangLang]

Btw, in light of several recent post topics, I think it would be very nice if we all declared the month of October to be International Kung Fu Politics Month. Any topics relating to issues of legitimacy etc will be posted in October, and only in October. That will leave us with the other 11 months of the year for technical discussions. That is, of course, if your lineage approves.

But first we need to create an organization...

N.

Indeed. Polotics & bash the most hated sifus in your life month. I hate the monkey sifu. He thinks he knows so much! LOL!

(BTW Guys,....I'm KIDDING! NO BASHING!!!!! )
~BTL

[mantis108]

I understand your points and it has been argued for such publication certainly can go under the "freedom of speech" tenet in a free world. That is why personally I don't make a fuss about it. There is certainly a huge market for pulp fictions and academic studies work alike. BTW, I have seen the letter being posted prior to the phone call from Galen and a forum member here (a good friend) notified me. I didn't react on it because I think in this day and age, it's not about stopping someone on doing something. That's reactive and passive. Instead, we should go proactive and aggressively promoting values that we hold true and dearly believe in.

But then I don't believe that freedom of speech can be done without responsibility.

One thing of note (I am also waiting for a copy of this book to verify somethings) is that the HK group believes that Lam did his own rendition of applications. Now, this is a big one even to me, who believe in freedom of speech, if the claim is true. CCK TCPM Sau Fa/Shou Fa is unique and it's essential to our training. Often our Sau Fa is seen in the applications of the forms along side with the forms own applications. If Lam did not in anyway clarify this point, then I am afraid he's really not in any position to show the form. In this case, he is pretty much misleading the general public about the essence of CCK TCPM unless of course he is talking about other lines of TJPM, which I highly doubt that he has trained in those either IMHO.

Hi Jake,

The issue with the naming convention is that some of the stances technically are not the same; therefore, the postures which determine the flavor of the styles would be understood differerntly by the readers. Ding Xi (kneeling stance) in CCK TCPM is not exactly Ruhuan (roughly speaking - enter circle) in 7 Stars. They may look similar to some observers but in the trained eyes. There is a huge difference. Again this would lead to misleading the readers. I don't know the exact content of the book yet, so I will just leave it at that for now until I see the evidence.

Hi Jackie,

If I release anything (histroy, curriculum, quanpu, etc..) that concerns our style, I will seek my mentors' opinions and advices first. This includes the wooden dummy article. That's is without exception. If I were to release my experience of teaching CCK TCPM and ground fighting, I still would have sought their feed back but I don't necessarily have to have their approval. Because it is from my own understanding and blood and sweat. I only have to prove to the audience that I have the goods to deliver which a lot of time is much harder to do.

Warm regards

Robert

[MantisCool]

Hi! Robert

I understand your point too on responsibility.

LWk's books are only in picture forms and does not offer any explanation on how to move from one step to the other. But then books are for reference only and not for learning without having learnt the form first. Even in WHF's books where explanation is given in each step, one would still not understand it 100% if he doesnt know the form yet. It is always impossible to show "shou fa" in any book which is always so condensed to keep the cost down.

LWK is only showing his understanding of the form. We dont have to follow him in doing so. From what I see, his rendition is influenced by his tan tui understanding or whatever earlier training. If he had being guided out on the form before then I think it is ok for him to write the book if he hasnt then it is wrong.

As you have said, if you were to write a book from your understanding through blood and sweat you dont have to seek anyone's approval.

If let say, your senior said your rendition on a particular move is wrong and you believe it is right because it was taught to you by your sifu would you change it to suit your senior? I dont think you would do so. I wouldnt too for I have seen alot of my senior or junior doing move which is difference from mine.

We should thank LWK instead for publishing the books if it is with good intention and helps to popularise our schools because we our self could not do so and could not give our students reference materials.

Regards
khoo